If there is information, then there is nothing to discuss
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
21-06-2017, 05:51 AM
RE: If there is information, then there is nothing to discuss
(21-06-2017 02:18 AM)HeYYow Wrote:  Information: There are two ways from work to home
Aim: We want to go home earlier, which way would be true choice ?
Information: The way 1 is 10 miles long, the way 2 is 5 miles long.
Information: All the other conditions are same.
Logic: The way 2 is the true choice.

So there is nothing to discuss. this is a simple example. Having small number of information or soo much information wont cause any change. When we have soo much information, we will first arrange the informations we need and we will built our way/ways step by step.

It's a very simple example and that's the problem. As others have noted, we rarely have complete information and often have different priorities and goals. In your example you say "all other conditions are [the] same" which is almost never the case in real life so discussion is needed to explain those nuances.

Quote:For this reason, I will never discuss with people, I just expect them to share information and help to built the way we need.

What if I don't agree with what you think we need? What if we don't have complete information? Sometimes you have to act without the luxury of waiting for more data. The world is rarely as black & white as you paint it.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes unfogged's post
21-06-2017, 08:13 AM
RE: If there is information, then there is nothing to discuss
(21-06-2017 03:47 AM)Aliza Wrote:  Why does there have to be a "true" route and a "false" route? Why can't they both be "true?" Both routes lead you from work to home. One route is longer... but they both accomplish the same goal.

Maybe your goal is to get from point A to point B in the shortest distance, but my goal is to get to the same place, and have fun along the trip. Or maybe my goal is to travel the safest route, even if that other route is longer. Maybe the shorter route takes longer time and the longer route is along a highway, so it's faster to travel.

Both routes are true, but each may service different agendas.

Edit: I missed this part: "Information: All the other conditions are same." Fine, so one route makes me happier. One route enables me to drive a little longer in my brand new car and spend some "me" time listening to the radio a little longer.

Oh, and if you're not going to discuss things, there was no point in joining a forum. Discussing stuff is what we do. Aside from some forum games, all we do is discuss stuff.

I prefer the scenic route. Facepalm

(BTW, there are many systems of logic. Some obtain in reality, some do not. He/she has not established or defined the one used, nor have they said why they support it.).

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Bucky Ball's post
21-06-2017, 09:25 AM
RE: If there is information, then there is nothing to discuss
Must be nice living in the simplistic, cut-and-dried, black-and-white world of religionists...

No, wait. Must be torture. Who would've thought hell was real? Certainly not me...


Also, this is the most ludicrous "definition" of the word "discuss" I've ever seen.

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderò."
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like Vera's post
21-06-2017, 09:32 AM
RE: If there is information, then there is nothing to discuss
(21-06-2017 09:25 AM)Vera Wrote:  Must be nice living in the simplistic, cut-and-dried, black-and-white world of religionists...

No, wait. Must be torture. Who would've thought hell was real? Certainly not me...


Also, this is the most ludicrous "definition" of the word "discuss" I've ever seen.

Google : low ambiguity tolerance .... it's a *thing*. Tongue
(or *need for cognitive closure* ) ... that'll be $50.00 please for the amateur Psych Consult. Angel

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Bucky Ball's post
21-06-2017, 09:35 AM
RE: If there is information, then there is nothing to discuss




I don't feel frightened by not knowing things either. Just curious and excited - there's so much more to learn. Yay!

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderò."
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Vera's post
21-06-2017, 09:41 AM
RE: If there is information, then there is nothing to discuss
(21-06-2017 02:18 AM)HeYYow Wrote:  The word "discuss" is usually used to describe conversations between people with no results. the topics are always started again again again. People always discuss the same things, because they always have a lack of information or they simply ignore information just because it does not fit with their personal interest.

Information and logic are the parts of each other, they could not separete from each other. Logic without an information cannot be built. Information without logic is useless.

Having conversation about an issue which we dont have any information or not enough information is meaningless.

Information: There are two ways from work to home
Aim: We want to go home earlier, which way would be true choice ?
Information: The way 1 is 10 miles long, the way 2 is 5 miles long.
Information: All the other conditions are same.
Logic: The way 2 is the true choice.

So there is nothing to discuss. this is a simple example. Having small number of information or soo much information wont cause any change. When we have soo much information, we will first arrange the informations we need and we will built our way/ways step by step.


For this reason, I will never discuss with people, I just expect them to share information and help to built the way we need.

But if you don't have a discussion about the facts, you may miss important details, context, and anything else you may not know.

Using your example of the 2 routes. Route 1 may be longer, but you may be able to travel along its path quicker. If you can do double the speed (or greater) on route 1 that you can on route 2, it might be as fast to traverse or maybe faster. Perhaps the person you are asking about the 2 routes would have told you that route 2 has construction along it and you should expect delays. Or that a bridge washed out and route 2 now has a detour that makes it a bit longer. It might still be shorter than route 1 but the detour and traffic might cause it to take longer.

Facts are nice, but the context that the facts fit into is also required. And that comes from discussing things and not simply expecting people to accept your facts from your singular perspective.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like TheBeardedDude's post
21-06-2017, 09:51 AM
RE: If there is information, then there is nothing to discuss
I look at a mutual exchange of information in an effort to resolve an issue or answer a question more as "debate" than "discussion" personally. Debating is for finding the best outcome or practical application of varying opinions on an issue.

Discussion, to me anyway, is more about gaining the other's perspective and sharing yours. There doesn't need to be a "winner" or a concrete resolution or result from a discussion.

The OP's example at the top of the thread, which is the best route home, has a clear purpose; we want to decide on the most appropriate course of action to deliver the desired result: getting home as quickly as possible. If one person take Route A and the other Route B, there will be a decisive result that determines who was right.

A topic for "discussion" though might be about learning another person's perspective on an issue or comparison of things that is not definitive or evidence-based. Like I might assert Eddie Vedder is a better frontman than Axl Rose, and a friend may take the opposing view. We're not necessarily trying to ascertain who is CORRECT, as either position is subjective. We might simply each enjoy hearing the other's reasoning and arguments. In such a scenario we're simply trying to explore a topic - we're not opponents, but rather collaborators in the discussion, even if we each feel strongly about our own opinion.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Mr. Boston's post
21-06-2017, 10:45 AM
RE: If there is information, then there is nothing to discuss
You're talking only about matters of fact. There is plenty to discuss when it comes to value judgements, such as morality.

Of course there is nothing to discuss in very simple scenarios. But in real life, we're faced with decisions which have lots of factors and we rarely have all the information. So a discussion helps us do our best to find a sensible plan.

I have a website here which discusses the issues and terminology surrounding religion and atheism. It's hopefully user friendly to all.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like Robvalue's post
21-06-2017, 04:36 PM
RE: If there is information, then there is nothing to discuss
(21-06-2017 02:18 AM)HeYYow Wrote:  Having conversation about an issue which we dont have any information or not enough information is meaningless.

In the complete absence of creativity, perhaps.

--
Dr H

"So, I became an anarchist, and all I got was this lousy T-shirt."
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
21-06-2017, 08:22 PM
RE: If there is information, then there is nothing to discuss
I pop open a bottle of wine.
Let's discuss how the wine tastes.

I just bought this painting.
Let's discuss every aspect about it.
Who is the painter ?
Do you like any other pieces he or she has created ?

I've been putting new deck boards on this older deck at my house. Do they look straight from this spot in the yard ? They measure the same distance from the end but I think they are running crooked. Let's discuss how each of us sees it.

Discussion is usually about our opinion of our observations. Sometimes a single brush stroke on a canvas can convey different information to two different people. Both individuals are viewing the same set of facts and come to different conclusions.

This is why we discuss things, so we can get another person's perspective.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like Rahn127's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: