If there was a God(s).....
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06-09-2017, 05:04 AM
If there was a God(s).....
[Playing a bit of "theists advocate"]

If there were a God(s), how would you be able to accept how they act, in accordance to what you know of the world?

For example:

If a god or gods were to exist and make themselves known, do you think an "all seeing/all knowing" type of being, would be accepted by the masses, due to the atrocities in the world? [Even though most theist already do]

Or could you accept a god/gods that said "Look, we did something, life happened and we have no idea what we're doing" ?

For me as an atheist, it'd just raise more questions than anything, the latter option for me would be more accessible, but I think the theist community would implode if a being become known only to say "yeah we made like this tiny microbe, and you did the rest yourselves", with most saying "yeah thats not MY god(s)"

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06-09-2017, 05:42 AM (This post was last modified: 06-09-2017 06:05 AM by BikerDude.)
RE: If there was a God(s).....
The implication would be that we should act in accordance with said God's will out of fear?
The idea that any God would "love us" is inconsistent with an expectation that we should surrender our free will to his will.
As Christopher Hitchens noted "this is the relationship of a master to a slave".
Religion is a sales pitch for totalitarianism.

The bottom line is that if there was an all powerful God that took a direct hand in our fates he would make himself known.
And I mean unequivocally. Not the slippery bullshit that you get from religion when they insist that he does make himself known "in our hearts" or by the existence of everything.
Bla bla bla. He would know exactly how to make his existence and will 100% clear to every person in totally unequivocal terms.
God is a tool used by people to control other peoples thoughts and actions.
Government for the disenfranchised originally.

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06-09-2017, 05:47 AM
RE: If there was a God(s).....
Option two sounds more appealing to me, I think most reasonable people would accept whatever appeared in front of them whether they liked it or not.
The other side of the coin is of course the hard line fundies who would not accept anything except their own particular brand of god and would probably argue that people were being deceived by devil magic or something.

Get your own bleeding hymn book
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06-09-2017, 07:26 AM
RE: If there was a God(s).....
If god(s) did exist and they purposefully were dicks, creating (or standing by when they could do something to prevent atrocities/pain/suffering) while atrocities, pain, and suffering in the world exist, then no that would not be acceptable to me and certainly not beings deserving of worship.

If god(s) did exist and said "Hey, we created you and we somehow fucked up along the way, we don't know what happened and we're powerful but not "all powerful" and we are so sorry that these horrible things happened in your world as a result of our creating you, and we will try to help you in any way we can to make things better--then yes, I could accept that.

If god(s) did exist and said "Yeah, we created you for funsies, but that's all we did and the rest you idiots did to yourselves"-- then I could accept that as well.

Of course, all of this "accepting" would require a god or gods to actually show themselves. Cue Crickets.... Crickets

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06-09-2017, 08:15 AM
RE: If there was a God(s).....
(06-09-2017 07:26 AM)jennybee Wrote:  If god(s) did exist and said "Yeah, we created you for funsies, but that's all we did and the rest you idiots did to yourselves"-- then I could accept that as well.
In all these hypothetical, "god(s) would need to exist in the first place", type scenrios this one makes me laugh the most.

It's the most reasonable one I can think of, where most Atheists would say: "Huh, would you look at that." and just carry on as normal really. As everything we know to be true such as evolution, what things are made of and how that all works, would most likely not change at all.

Whereas I imagine the mere notion of A) there being a god and B) said god not really giving a shit about them or this planet, would just shatter most theists fragile "GOD KNOWS ALL" minds, and send them crazy lol.

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06-09-2017, 08:34 AM
RE: If there was a God(s).....
(06-09-2017 05:04 AM)OakTree500 Wrote:  If there were a God(s), how would you be able to accept how they act, in accordance to what you know of the world?

I can't entertain hypotheses such as this... "if gods existed, etc".

We may as well discuss finding a pot of gold at the end of rainbows if leprechauns existed LOL.

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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06-09-2017, 08:52 AM
RE: If there was a God(s).....
Just a social experiment bro

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06-09-2017, 08:57 AM
RE: If there was a God(s).....
Probably the typical responses that have been given in the past: if they were the "all powerful type", I'd ask why are they so bad being the all powerful god? Why did they let so many "holy books" that not only contradict each other but contradict themselves internally be written and never attempt to correct them? On top of that, why would you think written words and oral stories would be the best way to get your message out? Why hide yourself? Why let millions if not billions of people be manipulated by terrible people in your name? If "Satan" is real, why do you refuse to do anything about it, in fact why the hell did you even create it?

That's just the tip of the iceberg, but basically it would boil down to "If you're all powerful then how can one average human out of the billions that have lived like me so easily poke holes in everything you've done".

If it's the second type I'd probably have similar questions but since they don't appear to be self-centered, "you must love me" dicks I'd probably be more open to actually having a real discussion with them instead of asking why they suck so much.
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06-09-2017, 08:57 AM
RE: If there was a God(s).....
(06-09-2017 05:42 AM)BikerDude Wrote:  The implication would be that we should act in accordance with said God's will out of fear?
The idea that any God would "love us" is inconsistent with an expectation that we should surrender our free will to his will.
As Christopher Hitchens noted "this is the relationship of a master to a slave".
Religion is a sales pitch for totalitarianism.

I never really thought about that part of it, before; especially if you throw in the apologetics of God being way smarter than us. If you look at all of the rules we have for when sex is considered consensual and when it is rape, pretty much all of this God-human dynamic falls in the non-consensual bucket, even if his actions are described as being loving and really well-intended. And that doesn't even take coercion.

Imagine if some adult wanted to sleep with a kid, but told us all not to worry because he really loves the kid and is smart enough to consent for them, all while threatening the kid.
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06-09-2017, 09:39 AM
RE: If there was a God(s).....
If there really was a morally best god it wouldn't be anything like the one in the bible. But there isn't.

“Tiger got to hunt, bird got to fly;
Man got to sit and wonder 'why, why, why?'
Tiger got to sleep, bird got to land;
Man got to tell himself he understand.”

― Kurt Vonnegut, Cat's Cradle
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