If there was a God(s).....
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
06-09-2017, 09:48 AM
RE: If there was a God(s).....
(06-09-2017 09:39 AM)whateverist Wrote:  If there really was a morally best god it wouldn't be anything like the one in the bible. But there isn't.

Not only was the Bible God immoral, he needed a much better editor.
Hobo
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Thoreauvian's post
06-09-2017, 11:42 AM
If there was a God(s).....
If god were to exist then my acceptance wouldn't matter; I don't accept nationalism yet it exists.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Szuchow's post
06-09-2017, 12:27 PM
RE: If there was a God(s).....
The only being that makes sense to me to consider a god is the tri-omni (all knowing, all powerful, all good) god and yet this god logically cannot exist given that it allows human suffering to exist.

The OP's hypothetical god(s) who "don't know what they're doing" are immensely powerful beings with some sort of claimed creative power, but are not all-knowing, and therefore, not gods in the sense that most theists (or at least Abrahamic theists) regard it. Also, they would not be gods that inspire awe or worship (though perhaps they inspire extreme caution in having any contact with them), except in this one sense: an opportunist who thought these gods able to be their benefactor might try to flatter or otherwise manipulate them to that end. Personally I consider that a fool's errand and wouldn't bother.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes mordant's post
06-09-2017, 12:34 PM
RE: If there was a God(s).....
(06-09-2017 12:27 PM)mordant Wrote:  given that it allows human suffering to exist.

And not just human. The "original sin", "free-will" explanation barely works with humanity. Why would all life have to pay for the supposed transgression of a single member of a single species? It doesn't really get any more immoral than this.

And yet...

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderò."
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like Vera's post
06-09-2017, 02:09 PM
RE: If there was a God(s).....
(06-09-2017 12:34 PM)Vera Wrote:  
(06-09-2017 12:27 PM)mordant Wrote:  given that it allows human suffering to exist.

And not just human. The "original sin", "free-will" explanation barely works with humanity. Why would all life have to pay for the supposed transgression of a single member of a single species? It doesn't really get any more immoral than this.

And yet...
Yes, I often forget the notion of "fallen creation" participating in this. But then that was all implicit in the notion that "all the world's a stage" for man's drama to play out on. The plant and animal kingdoms are merely backdrops and supporting characters. So if sin's eldritch properties includes warping nature, thus bringing forth "red in tooth and claw", then so be it. It's just more "proof" of god's power, right?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like mordant's post
06-09-2017, 02:33 PM
RE: If there was a God(s).....
(06-09-2017 02:09 PM)mordant Wrote:  Yes, I often forget the notion of "fallen creation" participating in this. But then that was all implicit in the notion that "all the world's a stage" for man's drama to play out on. The plant and animal kingdoms are merely backdrops and supporting characters. So if sin's eldritch properties includes warping nature, thus bringing forth "red in tooth and claw", then so be it. It's just more "proof" of god's power, right?

I remember reading somewhere, that when Origin of Species came out the Church and religious people didn't really have a problem with the idea of evolution but the idea that nature is not this paradisiacal creation but a cruel, violent place where living creatures suffer and struggle and die.

And the pinnacle of creation thing... yeah, tell me again how *atheists* are arrogant. *I* don't think the entire universe was created specifically for me and that a world full of suffering for all living things is a fair price for the salvation of *my* precious soul Dodgy




"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderò."
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Vera's post
06-09-2017, 03:51 PM
RE: If there was a God(s).....
(06-09-2017 02:33 PM)Vera Wrote:  I remember reading somewhere, that when Origin of Species came out the Church and religious people didn't really have a problem with the idea of evolution but the idea that nature is not this paradisiacal creation but a cruel, violent place where living creatures suffer and struggle and die.
I would expect that from people who are not literalists / inerrantists. Particularly in the 19th century. I think liberal Christians have largely gotten over it, though. It simply took them a couple of generations to adjust.

This thinking is still alive and well among fundamentalists, though. One of their objections to the notion that climate change is human-caused, for example, is that they believe puny humans cannot control the climate, that god would not allow that. I am not sure if that notion was laying fallow waiting to be taken up in the climate debate, or if, like the notion that life begins at conception, it was invented out of whole cloth by right-wing religious political operatives to unify fundamentalists on one side of a political argument.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes mordant's post
06-09-2017, 04:03 PM
RE: If there was a God(s).....
I recently posted a poll over at AF.org looking to discover what sort of god's existence might make some atheists happy to discover. It didn't go well. A 'god' is just too poorly defined a notion. I tried to put out some of the supposed attributes of the classic xtian god but botched the alternatives pretty badly.

I mean, really, no atheist wants to discover a god exists, do they? I don't. I think I was trying to get at which aspects of god as you understood it made you reluctant to give it up. Blah!

Good luck with this one!

“Tiger got to hunt, bird got to fly;
Man got to sit and wonder 'why, why, why?'
Tiger got to sleep, bird got to land;
Man got to tell himself he understand.”

― Kurt Vonnegut, Cat's Cradle
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes whateverist's post
06-09-2017, 04:05 PM
RE: If there was a God(s).....
The problem is that Perfect Being Theology, which became normative in Christianity with Anselm simply does not work. It is incoherent, inconsistent, and self contradictory. It does not explain the Universe as it is. But that is what the supposed revelation of the Bible leads to. Fitting a theoretical God to the nature of the Universe as we experience it leads to a much lessor God nobody wants to believe in. God as a concept has far too many unsolvable problems to be possible.

And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter
- Thomas Jefferson

Cheerful Charlie
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Cheerful Charlie's post
06-09-2017, 05:57 PM
RE: If there was a God(s).....
(06-09-2017 04:03 PM)whateverist Wrote:  I mean, really, no atheist wants to discover a god exists, do they?

If a spiritual realm existed, we might all live beyond death. That could be a plus.

However, I haven't yet heard of any afterlife scheme which seemed attractive.

Dodgy
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: