If there was actual evidence that we were the product of intelligent design
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09-06-2015, 10:02 AM
RE: If there was actual evidence that we were the product of intelligent design
(09-06-2015 09:24 AM)tomilay Wrote:  But that is not evidence in the scientific sense. On the basis of the evidence, it is fair to say that, at the very least , life as we know it is a rare occurrence.

It is fair to say that, based on the evidence we have currently, life as we know it is rare in our solar system. We are just beginning to be able to detect planets in other systems that are similar in size so estimating the number of earth-like planets so I'm not sure what you are using to estimate the rarity of life in the universe. There's also still hope for Mars and Titan and if they support life then the estimate will change.

And you still need to explain your statements regarding the second law of thermodynamics or admit that you were just wrong.

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09-06-2015, 10:09 AM
RE: If there was actual evidence that we were the product of intelligent design
I don't even think we can suppose much for life in our solar system. The conditions on earth manipulate life as we know it and that's all we know of it. We have no other sample to choose from.
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09-06-2015, 10:09 AM
RE: If there was actual evidence that we were the product of intelligent design
(09-06-2015 09:54 AM)unfogged Wrote:  
(09-06-2015 09:26 AM)tomilay Wrote:  And you are trying to argue from authority.

There is a difference between pointing out that you are speculating from a position of ignorance and arguing from authority.

Even if I had made a claim it would be based on the general consensus of experts on the field and that sort of argument from authority is not a fallacy.

Quote:I don't need to prove a negative. If you have evidence for a second bio-genesis, you should feel free to table it.

I didn't claim there was one. I noted that you have no evidence for your claim that there wasn't.
I will not be caught splitting hairs just to deny accepting the obvious.

The consensus is for one shared ancestor for all life on earth.

We have to remember that what we observe is not nature herself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning ~ Werner Heisenberg
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09-06-2015, 10:14 AM
RE: If there was actual evidence that we were the product of intelligent design
(09-06-2015 10:02 AM)unfogged Wrote:  
(09-06-2015 09:24 AM)tomilay Wrote:  But that is not evidence in the scientific sense. On the basis of the evidence, it is fair to say that, at the very least , life as we know it is a rare occurrence.

It is fair to say that, based on the evidence we have currently, life as we know it is rare in our solar system. We are just beginning to be able to detect planets in other systems that are similar in size so estimating the number of earth-like planets so I'm not sure what you are using to estimate the rarity of life in the universe. There's also still hope for Mars and Titan and if they support life then the estimate will change.

And you still need to explain your statements regarding the second law of thermodynamics or admit that you were just wrong.
I agree there is hope. I say as much. At the end of the day, with good reason, that is all we have for now.

On the thermodynamics point, I was wrong to think it inconsistent with life, having already stated that in a previous post.

Do I understand the law? I believe I do. It's besides the point anyhow.

We have to remember that what we observe is not nature herself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning ~ Werner Heisenberg
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09-06-2015, 10:19 AM
RE: If there was actual evidence that we were the product of intelligent design
(09-06-2015 10:09 AM)tomilay Wrote:  
(09-06-2015 09:54 AM)unfogged Wrote:  There is a difference between pointing out that you are speculating from a position of ignorance and arguing from authority.

Even if I had made a claim it would be based on the general consensus of experts on the field and that sort of argument from authority is not a fallacy.


I didn't claim there was one. I noted that you have no evidence for your claim that there wasn't.
I will not be caught splitting hairs just to deny accepting the obvious.

The consensus is for one shared ancestor for all life on earth.

And that would be ?
Provide proof of the consensus, name the ancestor, and reference it in a scientific peer-reviewed publication.

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09-06-2015, 10:26 AM
RE: If there was actual evidence that we were the product of intelligent design
(09-06-2015 10:19 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(09-06-2015 10:09 AM)tomilay Wrote:  I will not be caught splitting hairs just to deny accepting the obvious.

The consensus is for one shared ancestor for all life on earth.

And that would be ?
Provide proof of the consensus, name the ancestor, and reference it in a scientific peer-reviewed publication.
Read the first paragraph. Don't be lazy.

We have to remember that what we observe is not nature herself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning ~ Werner Heisenberg
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09-06-2015, 11:06 AM
RE: If there was actual evidence that we were the product of intelligent design
(09-06-2015 08:55 AM)tomilay Wrote:  
(09-06-2015 08:09 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  Lets try this approach:

What about the second law of thermodynamics do you feel is contrary to life?
No.

So, you're going to assert that "I don't understand how life reconciles in with the second law", and you're not going to explain why?

Okay then. That makes my work easy:

Learn what you're talking about before you open your mouth and embarrass yourself any further.

What the fuck is this? You come to a discussion forum and refuse to explain your positions.
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09-06-2015, 11:25 AM
RE: If there was actual evidence that we were the product of intelligent design
(09-06-2015 10:09 AM)tomilay Wrote:  
(09-06-2015 09:54 AM)unfogged Wrote:  There is a difference between pointing out that you are speculating from a position of ignorance and arguing from authority.

Even if I had made a claim it would be based on the general consensus of experts on the field and that sort of argument from authority is not a fallacy.


I didn't claim there was one. I noted that you have no evidence for your claim that there wasn't.
I will not be caught splitting hairs just to deny accepting the obvious.

The consensus is for one shared ancestor for all life on earth.

Yes, so? Consider

You cannot conclude from that that life only started once.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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09-06-2015, 11:40 AM
RE: If there was actual evidence that we were the product of intelligent design
(09-06-2015 11:06 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  
(09-06-2015 08:55 AM)tomilay Wrote:  No.

So, you're going to assert that "I don't understand how life reconciles in with the second law", and you're not going to explain why?

Okay then. That makes my work easy:

Learn what you're talking about before you open your mouth and embarrass yourself any further.

What the fuck is this? You come to a discussion forum and refuse to explain your positions.
I didn't come here to join a beauty contest. I had a doubt. Raised it. Found an answer. Moved on. Can you live with that?

We have to remember that what we observe is not nature herself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning ~ Werner Heisenberg
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09-06-2015, 11:56 AM
RE: If there was actual evidence that we were the product of intelligent design
(09-06-2015 11:40 AM)tomilay Wrote:  I didn't come here to join a beauty contest. I had a doubt. Raised it. Found an answer. Moved on. Can you live with that?

If your stance is "you already answered your question, so you're done with the topic", sure.

If it's "I don't want to elaborate what my position is so it can't be discussed", then no.
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