If there was actual evidence that we were the product of intelligent design
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09-06-2015, 01:38 PM
RE: If there was actual evidence that we were the product of intelligent design
(09-06-2015 01:19 PM)tomilay Wrote:  
(09-06-2015 01:13 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Look it up. Don't be lazy.
I see you don't science. Weeping
I just did. I find one. Earth. Very very high indeed.

http://science.time.com/2013/11/04/so-mu...t-like-it/

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09-06-2015, 01:44 PM
RE: If there was actual evidence that we were the product of intelligent design
The six most likely places to find life in our solar system.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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09-06-2015, 01:45 PM
RE: If there was actual evidence that we were the product of intelligent design
(09-06-2015 01:38 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(09-06-2015 01:19 PM)tomilay Wrote:  I just did. I find one. Earth. Very very high indeed.

http://science.time.com/2013/11/04/so-mu...t-like-it/
If this is what you call evidence then you are sorrier than I thought. How many of those have they spotted life on?

We have to remember that what we observe is not nature herself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning ~ Werner Heisenberg
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09-06-2015, 01:46 PM
RE: If there was actual evidence that we were the product of intelligent design
(09-06-2015 01:14 PM)unfogged Wrote:  
(09-06-2015 10:09 AM)tomilay Wrote:  The consensus is for one shared ancestor for all life on earth.

Is it? Do you have a reference for that? I've seen a lot of conjectures but as this isn't a strong interest area I may have missed that.
I don't have one handy now. I'll bookmark this and get back with one.

We have to remember that what we observe is not nature herself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning ~ Werner Heisenberg
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09-06-2015, 01:59 PM
RE: If there was actual evidence that we were the product of intelligent design
(09-06-2015 12:45 PM)tomilay Wrote:  What is innumerable? How many planets can you name that support life?

One, for which the evidence pretty convincingly shows that the planet, and the life on it, formed naturally over a very long time. The details aren't fully known but the broad outline falls into the realm of possibility without any supernatural component needed. Based on that, and the evidence that there are many billions of star systems in which similar events may have taken place, it isn't unreasonable to believe that there may be other life in the universe. Whether it is rare or common, or even that we are somehow unique, is something that has to wait until we have more evidence one way or the other.

The point is that you can't base an argument for god on the idea that life is extremely unlikely because it is based on complete ignorance of just how likely life is -- an ignorance that we all share because nobody knows what the probability is. What we do know is that unlikely events can happen and in a universe as old and as large as we have there is plenty of time and space for even incredibly unlikely events to occur. Our limited knowledge of a small bit of one star system just isn't sufficient to support the claim.

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09-06-2015, 02:25 PM
RE: If there was actual evidence that we were the product of intelligent design
(09-06-2015 01:59 PM)unfogged Wrote:  
(09-06-2015 12:45 PM)tomilay Wrote:  What is innumerable? How many planets can you name that support life?

One, for which the evidence pretty convincingly shows that the planet, and the life on it, formed naturally over a very long time. The details aren't fully known but the broad outline falls into the realm of possibility without any supernatural component needed. Based on that, and the evidence that there are many billions of star systems in which similar events may have taken place, it isn't unreasonable to believe that there may be other life in the universe. Whether it is rare or common, or even that we are somehow unique, is something that has to wait until we have more evidence one way or the other.

The point is that you can't base an argument for god on the idea that life is extremely unlikely because it is based on complete ignorance of just how likely life is -- an ignorance that we all share because nobody knows what the probability is. What we do know is that unlikely events can happen and in a universe as old and as large as we have there is plenty of time and space for even incredibly unlikely events to occur. Our limited knowledge of a small bit of one star system just isn't sufficient to support the claim.
I also think it bears waiting. That the sample is big. We have only started. These are fair positions.

Maybe we are alone. Maybe we aren't. But can there ever be a scientific finding in favor of being alone? Given the current scale of the universe. I don't think so.

It's a question that could be answered in the next decade. Or never in eternity.

We have to remember that what we observe is not nature herself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning ~ Werner Heisenberg
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09-06-2015, 04:56 PM
RE: If there was actual evidence that we were the product of intelligent design
(09-06-2015 02:25 PM)tomilay Wrote:  Maybe we are alone. Maybe we aren't. But can there ever be a scientific finding in favor of being alone? Given the current scale of the universe. I don't think so.

That's a good question; there may perhaps be some proof discovered that our little corner of the universe is somehow unique and life as we know it just could not possibly exist elsewhere. That's a real stretch but who knows.

We may also find better ways of detecting planets and whether or not they have life remotely, or even a method to reach them in a practical manner. If we explore more and more star systems and find nothing then our confidence that we are alone will go up but may never reach a level where we can be pretty certain that we are.

Chances are that for the foreseeable future we will continue to refine our estimate of the number of earth-like worlds and increase our understanding of how life began here and what that means for the possibilities elsewhere.

Starting from "I don't know" and moving to "How can we find out" is, to me, so much more appealing and rewarding than the finality of the unevidenced pronouncements of some religion.

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10-06-2015, 09:26 AM
RE: If there was actual evidence that we were the product of intelligent design
(09-06-2015 01:45 PM)tomilay Wrote:  
(09-06-2015 01:38 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  http://science.time.com/2013/11/04/so-mu...t-like-it/
If this is what you call evidence then you are sorrier than I thought. How many of those have they spotted life on?

None. Take a class in Probability.

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10-06-2015, 09:38 AM
RE: If there was actual evidence that we were the product of intelligent design
(10-06-2015 09:26 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(09-06-2015 01:45 PM)tomilay Wrote:  If this is what you call evidence then you are sorrier than I thought. How many of those have they spotted life on?

None. Take a class in Probability.
None as in zero. No?

We have to remember that what we observe is not nature herself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning ~ Werner Heisenberg
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10-06-2015, 03:55 PM
If there was actual evidence that we were the product of intelligent design
(09-06-2015 12:55 PM)pablo Wrote:  Actual evidence of intelligent design would involve producing an intelligent designer.
Produce that and I'll mull it over.

No, it doesn't. You can infer design without knowing anything about the designer. Just like you don't need to know who or what robbed you, to infer your house has been robbed.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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