If there was actual evidence that we were the product of intelligent design
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16-06-2015, 07:38 AM (This post was last modified: 16-06-2015 07:49 AM by Chas.)
RE: If there was actual evidence that we were the product of intelligent design
(15-06-2015 10:53 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(14-06-2015 02:43 PM)Chas Wrote:  What is your point? What is it that you think is designed that a naturalist does not?

Well the main point, is to combat the accusation that one needs to know who or what designed something to infer design. We can look at a picture of a stone structure, without knowing much of anything else and infer design.

My secondary points would be that this process, is to great deal intuitively inferred, hence why when we try to articulate why we assume certain rock formations are designed we have a hard time articulating those reasons. These intuitions are shaped by our collective perceptions of designed and non-designed things.

In fact when we see those naturally formed rock formations presented here, those square crystals, or those trails created by sailing stones, the images are jarring, in way that looking upon other natural items, like mundane rocks, and mounds of sand don't. There's something that clicks in assuming these items are created intentionally, even though they are not.

What I always found interesting among a sort of diehard atheists is a sort of downplaying and denial of this basic human intuitions, and this sense of jarringness . The seem consciously aware of it, when presented with rock formations, in those that are naturally created, but strickingly so. But attempt to seemingly deny the jarringness of matter organizing itself in such a way to produce conscious, self aware creatures, with moral intuitions, and creative capacities,.

While they may believe this a natural, and unintentional process like sailing stones, they seem unable to relate, or recognize why others don’t particularly find this all that believable, that sense of absurdity in regards to ontological naturalism, which should be entirely understandable. But this often gets downplayed or denied, for no other apparent reasons, then perhaps ideological commitments.

That's all very interesting, but could you just answer my question?

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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16-06-2015, 07:38 AM
RE: If there was actual evidence that we were the product of intelligent design
(16-06-2015 07:37 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Consciousness is an emergent property of SOME of the living things on this planet. Your inability to comprehend or accept reality, is on you and doesn't diminish reality.

I accept reality. I don't accept ontological naturalism, which is just your ideological belief.
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16-06-2015, 07:39 AM
RE: If there was actual evidence that we were the product of intelligent design
"...with moral intuitions..."

You should also drop your bullshit notions of morality too if you even want to pretend that you are actually here to learn about opposing viewpoints because you have had morality explained to you multiple times by multiple people.

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16-06-2015, 07:41 AM
RE: If there was actual evidence that we were the product of intelligent design
(16-06-2015 07:38 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(16-06-2015 07:37 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Consciousness is an emergent property of SOME of the living things on this planet. Your inability to comprehend or accept reality, is on you and doesn't diminish reality.

I accept reality. I don't accept ontological naturalism, which is just your ideological belief.

You prefer supernatural fantasy. Drinking Beverage How quaint. Why the fuck do I care what you do or don't accept? You are on an atheist site clearly trying to convert people to your line of reasoning, but you lie about it and say you are here to learn.

You are a dishonest, morally bankrupt, utterly unsurprising moron.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
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16-06-2015, 07:50 AM
RE: If there was actual evidence that we were the product of intelligent design
(16-06-2015 07:38 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(16-06-2015 07:37 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Consciousness is an emergent property of SOME of the living things on this planet. Your inability to comprehend or accept reality, is on you and doesn't diminish reality.

I accept reality. I don't accept ontological naturalism, which is just your ideological belief.

No, it is the simplest description and assumes nothing not in evidence.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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16-06-2015, 07:59 AM
RE: If there was actual evidence that we were the product of intelligent design
(16-06-2015 07:39 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  "...with moral intuitions..."

You should also drop your bullshit notions of morality too if you even want to pretend that you are actually here to learn about opposing viewpoints because you have had morality explained to you multiple times by multiple people.

Yes, I've heard multiple atheists explain their views of morality on multiple occasions, some are moral realist, some are relativist, others are nihilist, etc... Some believe morality is an illusion, along with consciousness, some believe in freewill, some don't. Some making more convincing cases for their positions than others. Some can't distinguish their ass from the elbows.

Others such as yourself are primarily obstructionist, deliberately avoiding clarifying questions, and often imploding into rage over the most minor of incidents. You're too occupied with your own resentments to understand the objections, or the questions posed to you, let alone to gauge the understanding of others.
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16-06-2015, 08:01 AM
RE: If there was actual evidence that we were the product of intelligent design
(16-06-2015 07:59 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(16-06-2015 07:39 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  "...with moral intuitions..."

You should also drop your bullshit notions of morality too if you even want to pretend that you are actually here to learn about opposing viewpoints because you have had morality explained to you multiple times by multiple people.

Yes, I've heard multiple atheists explain their views of morality on multiple occasions, some are moral realist, some are relativist, others are nihilist, etc... Some believe morality is an illusion, along with consciousness, some believe in freewill, some don't. Some making more convincing cases for their positions than others. Some can't distinguish their ass from the elbows.

Others such as yourself are primarily obstructionist, deliberately avoiding clarifying questions, and often imploding into rage over the most minor of incidents. You're too occupied with your own resentments to understand the objections, or the questions posed to you, let alone to gauge the understanding of others.

Stop pretending you are here to learn. If you'd be honest about your intentions to spread your views and stop lying about being here to learn what atheists believe, you might actually find more interesting conversation to be had.

Or to put it another way, it is clear you are lying about your intentions here, so why would anyone waste a substantial amount of their time engaging with a dishonest prick such as yourself? Consider

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16-06-2015, 08:23 AM
RE: If there was actual evidence that we were the product of intelligent design
(16-06-2015 08:01 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Stop pretending you are here to learn. If you'd be honest about your intentions to spread your views and stop lying about being here to learn what atheists believe, you might actually find more interesting conversation to be had.

Everything is either one thing or other for you isn't it? lol.

I'm here because I just am. There's no single narrative reason or purpose for my existence here, other than I enjoy the topics, lol. I don't see myself as some student, amongst a plethora of teachers either, sitting quietly in a classroom learning. Learning for me here, is sort of like someone observing a culture other than ones own, trying to gauge it's underlying motivations, and reasons, what gives it it's ebb and flow. What distinguishes another from myself. The reasons provided by these others rarely ever seem to be the actual reasons at all.

While this may be prevailing question for me, it's not the only one. Any particular discussion, or point I make in another thread, might not even be all that related to it. I'm here to shoot the breeze like everybody else. You don't need to imagine that their is some hidden, undisclosed, and duplicitous reasons for my presence. One thing I can say for certain, is that I'm not here to convert you either.

Quote:so why would anyone waste a substantial amount of their time engaging with a dishonest prick such as yourself?

I don't know. Perhaps you'd have to ask that question to those that do. Including yourself.
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16-06-2015, 08:27 AM
RE: If there was actual evidence that we were the product of intelligent design
(16-06-2015 08:23 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(16-06-2015 08:01 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Stop pretending you are here to learn. If you'd be honest about your intentions to spread your views and stop lying about being here to learn what atheists believe, you might actually find more interesting conversation to be had.

Everything is either one thing or other for you isn't it? lol.

I'm here because I just am. There's no single narrative reason or purpose for my existence here, other than I enjoy the topics, lol. I don't see myself as some student, amongst a plethora of teachers either, sitting quietly in a classroom learning. Learning for me here, is sort of like someone observing a culture other than ones own, trying to gauge it's underlying motivations, and reasons, what gives it it's ebb and flow. What distinguishes another from myself. The reasons provided by these others rarely ever seem to be the actual reasons at all.

While this may be prevailing question for me, it's not the only one. Any particular discussion, or point I make in another thread, might not even be all that related to it. I'm here to shoot the breeze like everybody else. You don't need to imagine that their is some hidden, undisclosed, and duplicitous reasons for my presence. One thing I can say for certain, is that I'm not here to convert you either.

Quote:so why would anyone waste a substantial amount of their time engaging with a dishonest prick such as yourself?

I don't know. Perhaps you'd have to ask that question to those that do. Including yourself.

"I don't know. Perhaps you'd have to ask that question to those that do. Including yourself."

Dishonesty is one of my pet peeves.

"I'm here because I just am."

Nothing is "just" anything. You make it rather painfully clear that you don't actually care about the answers given to you. You care about having your theistic beliefs taken seriously. You are on an atheist site, why does anyone care about your theistic beliefs or rejection of reality?

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
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16-06-2015, 08:28 AM
RE: If there was actual evidence that we were the product of intelligent design
Here, if you actually care about learning, reread this:

It is even simpler when it comes to the idea of intelligent design.

Step 1) prove the designer exists

Step 2) find evidence of design from the designer that logically connects said evidence to said designer

You can't find evidence of something (your explanatory cause) without evidence that the cause exists. Otherwise you could claim that anything from your imagination is capable of explaining your "evidence" for it.

Or to put it another way, scientific explanations can't work without mechanisms that can be demonstrated plausible.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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