If there was actual evidence that we were the product of intelligent design
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16-06-2015, 11:28 AM
RE: If there was actual evidence that we were the product of intelligent design
(16-06-2015 11:17 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(16-06-2015 11:13 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  fluke
noun
unlikely chance occurrence, especially a surprising piece of luck.
"their triumph was no fluke"
synonyms: chance, coincidence, accident

An unexpected benefit or advantage resulting from the uncertain course of events <the discovery of oil on their property was just an amazing fluke>

Antonyms for fluke: Design; Plan; Certain

http://www.thesaurus.com/browse/fluke

https://www.google.com/search?client=saf...8&oe=UTF-8

http://www.merriam-webster.com/thesaurus/fluke

Ooooh look...a definition.

I didn't say you couldn't look up a definition, but like most theists, you seem to assume that fluke or luck or random, means "without cause"

No, I never said a fluke or luck or random, means without cause. That's an assumption pulled straight out of your ass.
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16-06-2015, 11:29 AM
RE: If there was actual evidence that we were the product of intelligent design
(16-06-2015 11:28 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(16-06-2015 11:17 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Ooooh look...a definition.

I didn't say you couldn't look up a definition, but like most theists, you seem to assume that fluke or luck or random, means "without cause"

No, I never said a fluke or luck or random, means without cause. That's an assumption pulled straight out of your ass.

Then why are you asking why atheists have a problem with flukes or randomness?

You wouldn't be invoking a....straw man would you?

*gasp* NOT TOMASIA!!!!

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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16-06-2015, 11:31 AM
RE: If there was actual evidence that we were the product of intelligent design
(16-06-2015 11:01 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(16-06-2015 10:59 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  No, explain the irony to me. Let me guess, that's there no relationship between the thing being attributed to intentional forces, and the particular God in question?

And any god in question given that there has never been a reason (a good, logical one based on actual evidence) to believe in one when explanations invoking nature are sufficient to explain reality.

But what if the attributes associate with God, and God are one and the same thing, the same way as a robbery, and robber are? That intentional forces, and a creator can be synonymous.

That I can infer a robber whose only attribute, is the robbery. Like an author whose nature and being is derived solely from his work. Rather than attributing features to him unrelated to this, like he the author is a moleman living under the earth? There's no seeming connection between observing of intentionally moved plates, and that lay behind this intentionality.
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16-06-2015, 11:32 AM
RE: If there was actual evidence that we were the product of intelligent design
(16-06-2015 11:31 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(16-06-2015 11:01 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  And any god in question given that there has never been a reason (a good, logical one based on actual evidence) to believe in one when explanations invoking nature are sufficient to explain reality.

But what if the attributes associate with God, and God are one and the same thing, the same way as a robbery, and robber are? That intentional forces, and a creator can be synonymous.

That I can infer a robber whose only attribute, is the robbery. Like an author whose nature and being is derived solely from his work. Rather than attributing features to him unrelated to this, like he the author is a moleman living under the earth?

"But what if the attributes associate with God, and God are one and the same thing, the same way as a robbery, and robber are?"

Circular logic is circular.

"That I can infer a robber whose only attribute, is the robbery. Like an author whose nature and being is derived solely from his work. Rather than attributing features to him unrelated to this, like he the author is a moleman living under the earth?"

You can't infer anything about something that doesn't exist. At least not anything real or true. You can describe your fantasy and fiction all day long, but who the fuck cares?

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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16-06-2015, 11:37 AM
RE: If there was actual evidence that we were the product of intelligent design
(16-06-2015 11:29 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(16-06-2015 11:28 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  No, I never said a fluke or luck or random, means without cause. That's an assumption pulled straight out of your ass.

Then why are you asking why atheists have a problem with flukes or randomness?

Uhm, probably based on numerous conversation in which they have an issue with the term, fluke. Are you trying to claim that they don't have an issue with word fluke, that we're a product of a fluke, but just that theists attach "without cause" to the meaning of the word fluke?

That you have no problem acknowledging that we are a fluke, as long as this doesn't entail an assumption made by some theists that this means "without cause"?
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16-06-2015, 11:39 AM
RE: If there was actual evidence that we were the product of intelligent design
(16-06-2015 11:37 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(16-06-2015 11:29 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Then why are you asking why atheists have a problem with flukes or randomness?

Uhm, probably based on numerous conversation in which they have an issue with the term, fluke. Are you trying to claim that they don't have an issue with word fluke, that we're a product of a fluke, but just that theists attach "without cause" to the meaning of the word fluke?

That you have no problem acknowledging that we are a fluke, as long as this doesn't entail an assumption made by some theists that this means "without cause"?

Because what you call a "fluke" or "randomness" that atheists have a problem with, is not what atheists mean.

Also, I have no issue with the universe being a "fluke" or the result of randomness. Makes far more sense than a fairy tale.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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16-06-2015, 11:50 AM
RE: If there was actual evidence that we were the product of intelligent design
(16-06-2015 11:32 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Circular logic is circular.

No, it isn't. It's a question of definition. That the meaning of something, can in fact be the attributes associated with it. It's only as circular as all definitions are, duh.

Quote:You can't infer anything about something that doesn't exist. At least not anything real or true. You can describe your fantasy and fiction all day long, but who the fuck cares?

How do I infer something exist? Can I infer from a vase or abandon dwelling place on another planet, that other life existed there at one point? Can I infer life has intrinsic meaning and purpose, without inferring that forces capable of endowing life in such a way exists?

If I found an isolated island, and believed I was the only one there, setting up a little hut and stuff for myself. And one day woke up to find a bunch of my items missing, can I infer from these missing items, that other life capable of taking these items is present on the island as well?
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16-06-2015, 11:52 AM
RE: If there was actual evidence that we were the product of intelligent design
(16-06-2015 11:39 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Also, I have no issue with the universe being a "fluke"

Good.
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16-06-2015, 11:54 AM
RE: If there was actual evidence that we were the product of intelligent design
(16-06-2015 11:50 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(16-06-2015 11:32 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Circular logic is circular.

No, it isn't. It's a question of definition. That the meaning of something, can in fact be the attributes associated with it. It's only as circular as all definitions are, duh.

Quote:You can't infer anything about something that doesn't exist. At least not anything real or true. You can describe your fantasy and fiction all day long, but who the fuck cares?

How do I infer something exist? Can I infer from a vase or abandon dwelling place on another planet, that other life existed there at one point? Can I infer life has intrinsic meaning and purpose, without inferring that forces capable of endowing life in such a way exists?

If I found an isolated island, and believed I was the only there, setting up a little hut and stuff for myself. And one day woke up to find a bunch of my items missing, can I infer from these missing items, that other life capable of taking these items is present on the island as well?

You still don't get it. You don't seem to be trying.

We know what signs of life are because we observe life and can tie life's effects on the world around it directly to life. Your stuff being missing, does not in and of itself mean you've been robbed. Observing someone robbing you, or a confession, or them being caught with evidence linking them to it, would mean you've been robbed.

Habeas corpus mean anything to you?

How do you know any attributes of your god when none has ever been observed?

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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16-06-2015, 12:05 PM
RE: If there was actual evidence that we were the product of intelligent design
(16-06-2015 11:54 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Your stuff being missing, does not in and of itself mean you've been robbed. Observing someone robbing you, or a confession, or them being caught with evidence linking them to it, would mean you've been robbed.

I come home one day, find my tv gone, my wife's jewelry missing, as well as a variety of other valuables, and the window wide open.

You're saying I can't conclude from this that I've been robbed? What should I take this all to mean then?

Quote:Habeas corpus mean anything to you?

Sure, but it seems that it would only mean something if I were attributing this to a particular person.

Quote:How do you know any attributes of your god when none has ever been observed?

Observed by you, you mean. To me, my life is filled with an over abundance of these observations. Observations that flood me with a perception that life signifies something. The question of God, and the question of meaning are one and the same to me, though for you they appear as two distinct questions, that you can't see the relationship between the two.
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