If there was actual evidence that we were the product of intelligent design
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19-12-2014, 02:31 PM
RE: If there was actual evidence that we were the product of intelligent design
So what is a product of design ?

If I take something natural and alter it, does that make it a product of design ? Say for instance I pick up a stick and break it in half. I'm planning on using that stick as a rung on a simple ladder, but is that stick, broken or not, a product of design, when I alter it or simply use it in my design ?

When I heat up iron ore to forge an iron hammer, is that a product of design ?

Most would say yes.

What about when my stomach takes the nutrients from the food I eat that are used by other parts of my body to build complex proteins ?

That's clearly by design, but the design isn't intelligent., it's natural.

So one might conclude that an intelligent design is something that can't occur naturally on its own, like say for instance, a car or a space shuttle, but those designs still have their roots from a naturally made complexity (us, human beings)

So we are left with nature making intelligent designers who in turn make stuff that don't naturally occur.

That's about all I can think to say

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19-12-2014, 02:51 PM
RE: If there was actual evidence that we were the product of intelligent design
(19-12-2014 10:50 AM)cjlr Wrote:  
(19-12-2014 10:45 AM)Free Wrote:  Please demonstrate that the "designer" exists.

It was aliens.

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PROVE ME WRONG SUCKER

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19-12-2014, 05:49 PM
RE: If there was actual evidence that we were the product of intelligent design
Every time I go into a pharmacy and look at isle after isle of all the crap it takes to keep humans alive, I always wonder how anyone could argue intelligent design. Even my dog doesn't need toilet paper to crap. How much thought could have really went into humans?
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28-04-2015, 05:52 PM
RE: If there was actual evidence that we were the product of intelligent design
(19-12-2014 02:51 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(19-12-2014 10:50 AM)cjlr Wrote:  It was aliens.

Drinking Beverage

PROVE ME WRONG SUCKER

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Can't prove it either way...THAT'S the point.

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28-04-2015, 11:51 PM
If there was actual evidence that we were the product of intelligent design
(17-12-2014 08:06 PM)The Drake Wrote:  In all of their searching and "scientific" endeavors, if fundies were to come across actual evidence...then I don't think they would accept it. It would ruin the "MAGIC". I'd like everyone's thoughts on this please.

To the OP's philosophical scenario, if they found this evidence they would cherry pick what they like from it and tap dance around the stuff they don't like, much like they do with evolution.

That's my guess

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29-04-2015, 02:22 AM
RE: If there was actual evidence that we were the product of intelligent design
(19-12-2014 02:31 PM)Rahn127 Wrote:  So what is a product of design ?
I design systems for a living.
I don't build systems, I design them.
The product of my design efforts are what I produce, they are called deliverables. They are not the finished product.
I create diagrams such as a System Context diagram which shows the scope of the system I am designing and how it relates to entities external to my system.
I develop architecture diagrams which show the objects that make up the system and how those objects interact to deliver a functioning system.
I develop component models which breaks down these objects into functional subcomponents.
I develop performance models to show what capacity is required to support the system.
I develop Operational Models to show what boundaries communications cross, to show how resilient and secure the system is.

My deliverables are evidence of design. I design things because I don't know exactly how things will perform, I need to create models in order to learn, explore and understand the system. Often during design I learn more and make changes to the design or fill out details I would have otherwise not known from the beginning of the design process.

If an all knowing god that never makes mistakes was to build something, this god wouldn't need to design, it could just jump right into the build phase.
If god exists there would be no design.
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29-04-2015, 06:03 AM
RE: If there was actual evidence that we were the product of intelligent design
(17-12-2014 08:06 PM)The Drake Wrote:  In all of their searching and "scientific" endeavors, if fundies were to come across actual evidence...then I don't think they would accept it. It would ruin the "MAGIC". I'd like everyone's thoughts on this please.

That's not true. A lot of them consider themselves to be very pro-science, even if they are looking to pseudoscience to provide them evidence for that which they already believe. Sure, it's intellectually dishonest as hell, but I'm sure if God were actually proven, many of them would be super-thrilled.

If you want to get a whiff of this, talk about flood apologetics. I've seen no shortage of people across at least four different forums that believe the flood in Genesis is consistent with science and reality.
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29-04-2015, 06:09 AM
RE: If there was actual evidence that we were the product of intelligent design
(29-04-2015 02:22 AM)Stevil Wrote:  If god exists there would be no design.
Point taken on a technicality, but an ID proponent would simply say that it would be a perfect design, and for an omniscient and omnipotent designer, there would be no real design "process" to arrive at it. The designer would simply bypass your discovery and exploratory steps and would not, for his own purposes, have to write it down somewhere either.

Put another way: a theist would simply say that you are projecting your own human limitations onto a process that you can only do imperfectly at best. God wouldn't have those limitations.

You have to remember that for a theist there is always special pleading for god. Because he's special. Outside of nature, having no dependencies or limitations at all.

If you declare your god to be above it all, you don't even have to use logic or any other form of justification. He's self-justifying, just because.
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29-04-2015, 08:05 AM
RE: If there was actual evidence that we were the product of intelligent design
(29-04-2015 02:22 AM)Stevil Wrote:  
(19-12-2014 02:31 PM)Rahn127 Wrote:  So what is a product of design ?
I design systems for a living.
I don't build systems, I design them.
The product of my design efforts are what I produce, they are called deliverables. They are not the finished product.
I create diagrams such as a System Context diagram which shows the scope of the system I am designing and how it relates to entities external to my system.
I develop architecture diagrams which show the objects that make up the system and how those objects interact to deliver a functioning system.
I develop component models which breaks down these objects into functional subcomponents.
I develop performance models to show what capacity is required to support the system.
I develop Operational Models to show what boundaries communications cross, to show how resilient and secure the system is.

My deliverables are evidence of design. I design things because I don't know exactly how things will perform, I need to create models in order to learn, explore and understand the system. Often during design I learn more and make changes to the design or fill out details I would have otherwise not known from the beginning of the design process.

If an all knowing god that never makes mistakes was to build something, this god wouldn't need to design, it could just jump right into the build phase.
If god exists there would be no design.

Meh - word games. Whether it is put down on paper or not, the process of design happens prior to instantiation.

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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29-04-2015, 08:38 AM
RE: If there was actual evidence that we were the product of intelligent design
I won't believe the universe is designed until I see the hazard log Wink

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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