If there was actual evidence that we were the product of intelligent design
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09-06-2015, 06:40 AM
RE: If there was actual evidence that we were the product of intelligent design
Interesting. I had assumed you were attempting to fool us. For that I apologise. If you are an atheist, as you say, hello.

And now good night.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
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09-06-2015, 06:43 AM
RE: If there was actual evidence that we were the product of intelligent design
(09-06-2015 06:40 AM)unfogged Wrote:  
(08-06-2015 09:43 PM)tomilay Wrote:  I have seen one that suggests that you are not going to get a Ferrari from mindless interaction of matter. A fair point.

No, it isn't. It compares evolution of living organisms to inanimate materials. There is no point there.

Quote:For me though. Life itself would seem to demand an explanation. Why? Because it seems to not sit well with the second law of thermodynamics.

Then you don't understand the concepts of abiogenesis, evolution, and/or the second law. Do some reading and come back when you have a better grasp of them.

Quote:I am saying I don't understand how life reconciles in with the second law.

Point to an example of life that is in violation of the second law.

Quote:I am an atheist. But being on this forum, I rather like to come at it from a somewhat neutral perspective to generate interesting discussion.

You are parroting common theistic arguments, not being neutral, and we've heard it all way too many times.
You are parroting common atheistic cliches. Dawkins zombiism.

We have to remember that what we observe is not nature herself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning ~ Werner Heisenberg
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09-06-2015, 06:47 AM
RE: If there was actual evidence that we were the product of intelligent design
(09-06-2015 06:40 AM)Banjo Wrote:  Interesting. I had assumed you were attempting to fool us. For that I apologise. If you are an atheist, as you say, hello.

And now good night.
I am one indeed. But I don't think religion is nuts. There may be nuts in it. But there are also atheist nuts.

I just think there is an evolutionary explanation for religion, even if I just don't know which.

We have to remember that what we observe is not nature herself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning ~ Werner Heisenberg
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09-06-2015, 06:56 AM
RE: If there was actual evidence that we were the product of intelligent design
Jared Diamond has an interesting take on it https://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com...rational/. He basically says it is rationally irrational. For group identification purposes. For survival.

How do I understand it? That if something is utterly irrational, it is difficult if not impossible for an enemy to come up with an equally idea that matches another group's independently.

Quote:The more of one’s life is wrapped up with one’s group, the more crucial it is to be able to identify group members correctly and not to be deceived by someone who seeks temporary advantage by claiming to share your ideals but who really doesn’t. If that man carrying a Boston Red Sox banner, whom you had accepted as a fellow Red Sox fan, suddenly cheers when the New York Yankees hit a home run, you’ll find it humiliating but not life-threatening. But if he’s a soldier next to you in the front line and he drops his gun (or turns it on you) when the enemy attacks, your misreading of him may cost you your life.

That’s why religious affiliation involves so many overt displays to demonstrate the sincerity of your commitment: sacrifices of time and resources, enduring of hardships, and other costly displays that I’ll discuss later. One such display might be to espouse some irrational belief that contradicts the evidence of our senses, and that people outside our religion would never believe. If you claim that the founder of your church had been conceived by normal sexual intercourse between his mother and father, anyone else would believe that too, and you’ve done nothing to demonstrate your commitment to your church. But if you insist, despite all evidence to the contrary, that he was born of a virgin birth, and nobody has been able to shake you of that irrational belief after many decades of your life, then your fellow believers will feel much more confident that you’ll persist in your belief and can be trusted not to abandon your group.

We have to remember that what we observe is not nature herself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning ~ Werner Heisenberg
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09-06-2015, 07:02 AM
RE: If there was actual evidence that we were the product of intelligent design
(09-06-2015 06:43 AM)tomilay Wrote:  You are parroting common atheistic cliches. Dawkins zombiism.

So you aren't going to actually defend any of your inane statements?

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
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09-06-2015, 07:24 AM
RE: If there was actual evidence that we were the product of intelligent design
(09-06-2015 07:02 AM)unfogged Wrote:  
(09-06-2015 06:43 AM)tomilay Wrote:  You are parroting common atheistic cliches. Dawkins zombiism.

So you aren't going to actually defend any of your inane statements?
When I find the inane ones I'll try.

We have to remember that what we observe is not nature herself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning ~ Werner Heisenberg
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09-06-2015, 07:28 AM
RE: If there was actual evidence that we were the product of intelligent design
(09-06-2015 07:24 AM)tomilay Wrote:  When I find the inane ones I'll try.

How about explaining why you think "you are not going to get a Ferrari from mindless interaction of matter" makes a fair point when it is a completely inapt analogy for evolution?

Or why you think that life "seems to not sit well with the second law of thermodynamics" when you have not a single example of life contravening that law?

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
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09-06-2015, 07:35 AM
RE: If there was actual evidence that we were the product of intelligent design
(09-06-2015 06:47 AM)tomilay Wrote:  
(09-06-2015 06:40 AM)Banjo Wrote:  Interesting. I had assumed you were attempting to fool us. For that I apologise. If you are an atheist, as you say, hello.

And now good night.
I am one indeed. But I don't think religion is nuts. There may be nuts in it. But there are also atheist nuts.

I just think there is an evolutionary explanation for religion, even if I just don't know which.

I think looking at religion from an evolutionary standpoint is simple: They were concocted from the human mind to explain the, at the time, unexplainable. Some of the unexplainable has been explained thus relocating some Gods to myth status.

Just like everything else, the nature and aspects of God have evolved based on the needs of its followers and more importantly its leaders.
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09-06-2015, 07:43 AM
RE: If there was actual evidence that we were the product of intelligent design
(09-06-2015 07:28 AM)unfogged Wrote:  
(09-06-2015 07:24 AM)tomilay Wrote:  When I find the inane ones I'll try.

How about explaining why you think "you are not going to get a Ferrari from mindless interaction of matter" makes a fair point when it is a completely inapt analogy for evolution?

Or why you think that life "seems to not sit well with the second law of thermodynamics" when you have not a single example of life contravening that law?
My issue entropy is past tense. I have since moved on.

The Ferrari analogy as used by intelligent design proponents is a fair point. Not one to dismiss off-hand in my opinion. It's not inane. You conflate misunderstanding with stupidity.

I think Darwinian evolution does an excellent job negating the need for such a designer. A fair point, countered by a cogent response.

Looking at the origin of life in general. I still wonder why there is only one known genesis on earth.

That can be a sticking point, because it would seem like it is not a common occurrence at all.

The notion that it could be so rare as to be the only tree of life in the universe, lends weight to the argument that favors divine intervention.

We have to remember that what we observe is not nature herself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning ~ Werner Heisenberg
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09-06-2015, 07:54 AM
RE: If there was actual evidence that we were the product of intelligent design
(09-06-2015 07:43 AM)tomilay Wrote:  
(09-06-2015 07:28 AM)unfogged Wrote:  How about explaining why you think "you are not going to get a Ferrari from mindless interaction of matter" makes a fair point when it is a completely inapt analogy for evolution?

Or why you think that life "seems to not sit well with the second law of thermodynamics" when you have not a single example of life contravening that law?

The notion that it could be so rare as to be the only tree of life in the universe, lends weight to the argument that favors divine intervention.

How does that favour divine intervention exactly?

The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
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