If you believe Alexander the Great existed, then why not Jesus?
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04-11-2014, 01:35 PM
RE: If you believe Alexander the Great existed, then why not Jesus?
(04-11-2014 01:25 PM)Winterwolf00 Wrote:  
(04-11-2014 11:23 AM)WhatWasIThinking Wrote:  There is abundant documentation for Jesus, compared to almost nothing on Alexander...

Are you retarded?

Has to be. Or too lazy to read history books, go to museums displaying Macedonian artifacts or any other activity that might help educate one's self.

He's down to hissy fits and personal attacks, you can always tell when trolls get exasperated with little thing like, er, facts and self destruct.

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topi...-the-Great

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
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04-11-2014, 01:38 PM
RE: If you believe Alexander the Great existed, then why not Jesus?
(04-11-2014 01:32 PM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  
(04-11-2014 01:20 PM)wazzel Wrote:  You smell like a troll, but here you go any way.

There are no contemporary records of Jesus or artifacts that support his existence. There are contemporary records for Alexander as well as artifacts that support his existence.

The Josephus line have been ruled a forgery, by most biblical scholars. The other non-biblical histories mention Christians, not Jesus. These could imply that some guy fits the place of Jesus, but not in the biblical accounts kind of way. All the gospels have been noted to be written well after the life of Jesus, with only two of them being original (Mark and Paul) and the other two (Luke and John)being rewrites of Mark for target audiences.

Again BULLSHIT... its only declared by those with an agenda against Christianity.. MOST SCHOLARS agree Jesus Lived. You don't question ANY other reference by Josephus and the charge that that ONE part is a forgery is RIDICULOUS because it is based on NOTHING but your wishes...

Quote:Having said that I believe there was probably some counter cultural rabbi or several rabbis that the Jesus story was derived from. The supernatural stuff was added to embellish the story to compete with the pagan religions of the time, IMO.

The Jewish leaders and establishment HATED Christ and Christianity... They had more reason to deny Him than YOU do... Show us the documentation backing your theory rabbis invented Jesus, and tell us why all these historians mention HIIM AND His church? They made it up too???

Morons... hypocrites for accepting documentation for alexander from the 10th 11th and 12th centuries... 1500 years after his lifetime, and telling us our documentation from the first century for Jesus and over a dozen non biblical references doesn't count lmao... LMAO

Im very glad the OP sees you cant account for this scholastic hypocrisy.

Alexanders fans didn't claim he walked on water, handed out miracles like Benny Hinn on a world tour, get nailed to a cross, and when his body was ferreted away somewhere, his fans said, "he arose to the heavens" of course not before his execution caused the whole world to go dark from 3-6pm, and the earth to shake, and corpses to burst out of their graves and walk around town.....pity no one at the time thought those mythical events were worthy of writing down...no lets wait 60-150 years and have someone who never witnessed these events write it down based off of exaggerated myths and fairy tales...yeah sounds solid to me bro.

Extraordinary fairy tales require extraordinary evidence, or heck, in this case, ANY evidence would be nice. Sadly, when you research it, and become a biblical scholar who has spent many years tracing the lie back to its inception, you find out it is a collective gathering of pseudepigrapha, interpolations, parables and allegorical writings...pity. The gospels were not written by whom they claim, no one who wrote of jesus ever met him, and the exodus never happened, what else you want to learn today child?

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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04-11-2014, 01:38 PM
RE: If you believe Alexander the Great existed, then why not Jesus?
I haven't seen this much impotent rage since Fenton's owner lost control of his dog.

Hate the belief, love the believer.
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04-11-2014, 01:45 PM
RE: If you believe Alexander the Great existed, then why not Jesus?
(04-11-2014 01:32 PM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  Again BULLSHIT... its only declared by those with an agenda against Christianity.. MOST SCHOLARS agree Jesus Lived. You don't question ANY other reference by Josephus and the charge that that ONE part is a forgery is RIDICULOUS because it is based on NOTHING but your wishes...

Did you read goodwithoutgod's post about Josephus? Interesting that you skipped right over it when it squashes your "one part" and "nothing but your wishes" claims.

And, by the way, even of the scholars that agree Jesus lived, most don't agree that he was who you think he was.

I am not accountable to any God. I am accountable to myself - and not because I think I am God as some theists would try to assert - but because, no matter what actions I take, thoughts I think, or words I utter, I have to be able to live with myself.
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04-11-2014, 01:45 PM
RE: If you believe Alexander the Great existed, then why not Jesus?
I have no idea who wolf is but it's obvious to me that wolf and OP are the same lunatic.
This is delusion at it's finest. Like holy shit.

Get help wolf. There's religious people and then there's religious nutjobs. You are clearly mentally unstable.

"I think of myself as an intelligent, sensitive human being with the soul of a clown which always forces me to blow it at the most important moments." -Jim Morrison
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04-11-2014, 01:46 PM
RE: If you believe Alexander the Great existed, then why not Jesus?
(04-11-2014 01:38 PM)Elder Cunningham Wrote:  I haven't seen this much impotent rage since Fenton's owner lost control of his dog.
It's kinda amusing ain't it. He's just so bad at...well at everything so far. He sounds like the kinda of 13 year old that threatens to beat people up over Facebook.

Everyone loves to watch a train wreak though so here we are. Popcorn

When valour preys on reason, it eats the sword it fights with.
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04-11-2014, 01:50 PM
RE: If you believe Alexander the Great existed, then why not Jesus?
(04-11-2014 12:02 PM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  
(04-11-2014 11:56 AM)WhatWasIThinking Wrote:  So Im following along with things...have a sincere question out of all of it, then suddenly Im accused and charged with things uncalled for..wtf

I will say this..it does speak volumes for the people here and the foundations of the things they say. And I do have to question the rise up against wolfbitn when mostly what I seen was him asking questions too..

Now you see EVERYTHIING atheist philosophy has to offer you... you also see what it turns you into. Absolutely blind to truth. Ask them why they cant say "Child rape is never good"?

They don't believe in absolute truth either... so that cant be a true statement. I actually copied where atheists try to show where it IS good.

So no... they cant offer you a good reason to accept the miniscule documentation for a man as important as Alexander, yet reject the volumes of evidence for Jesus. the earliest for Alexander 1500 years removed from his life... while Christ is documented as early as roughly 10 years after his resurrection.

They have no answer for this type of hypocrisy and lack of HONEST scholarship.

What does having evidence or no evidence for an historical figure have to do with lack of faith that some god is responsible for the existence of the universe?

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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04-11-2014, 01:56 PM
RE: If you believe Alexander the Great existed, then why not Jesus?
(04-11-2014 01:45 PM)lucradis Wrote:  I have no idea who wolf is but it's obvious to me that wolf and OP are the same lunatic.
This is delusion at it's finest. Like holy shit.

Get help wolf. There's religious people and then there's religious nutjobs. You are clearly mentally unstable.

Ahhh well contact Admin and let them tell you what a fucking moron you are.. Im done trying to rescue your credibility Smile

As for the rest of you... impotent rage? No... Im not pissed whatsoever. You've made fools of yourselves which seems to be pretty much all youre capable of... you certainly have no documentation quotes and references compared to mine

My scholars outweigh yours, yours are the VAST minority. My documentation is EARLIER than yours by 14 centuries for alexander, my documentation comes by the TENS OF THOUSANDS if you count the time period between alexander and HIS earliest documentation in a manuscript.

So im very happy showing you for what you are... belligerent paranoid goons devoid of anything other than what you can pull from your collective ass.

I'm very happy with the OP seeing all you have to offer Smile

I have 90 percent of the scholars and acceptance... YOU have your bullshit "no it didn't, because im a moron with a double standard" Smile

Peace out morons


.
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04-11-2014, 01:56 PM
RE: If you believe Alexander the Great existed, then why not Jesus?
(04-11-2014 01:32 PM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  
(04-11-2014 01:20 PM)wazzel Wrote:  You smell like a troll, but here you go any way.

There are no contemporary records of Jesus or artifacts that support his existence. There are contemporary records for Alexander as well as artifacts that support his existence.

The Josephus line have been ruled a forgery, by most biblical scholars. The other non-biblical histories mention Christians, not Jesus. These could imply that some guy fits the place of Jesus, but not in the biblical accounts kind of way. All the gospels have been noted to be written well after the life of Jesus, with only two of them being original (Mark and Paul) and the other two (Luke and John)being rewrites of Mark for target audiences.

Again BULLSHIT... its only declared by those with an agenda against Christianity.. MOST SCHOLARS agree Jesus Lived. You don't question ANY other reference by Josephus and the charge that that ONE part is a forgery is RIDICULOUS because it is based on NOTHING but your wishes...

Quote:Having said that I believe there was probably some counter cultural rabbi or several rabbis that the Jesus story was derived from. The supernatural stuff was added to embellish the story to compete with the pagan religions of the time, IMO.

The Jewish leaders and establishment HATED Christ and Christianity... They had more reason to deny Him than YOU do... Show us the documentation backing your theory rabbis invented Jesus, and tell us why all these historians mention HIIM AND His church? They made it up too???

Morons... hypocrites for accepting documentation for alexander from the 10th 11th and 12th centuries... 1500 years after his lifetime, and telling us our documentation from the first century for Jesus and over a dozen non biblical references doesn't count lmao... LMAO

Im very glad the OP sees you cant account for this scholastic hypocrisy.

If you are going to continue to be an ass this will be my last response to you.

If you are going to claim most scholars believe Jesus was a historical figure, back it up. Until then it is just you blowing hot air. Saying it over and over again is not going to convince me or anyone else of anything. I have not read all of the works by Josephus, being a former Christian I looked into his supposed references of Jesus as support for my belief. Finding out they are out of context and not in the original made me dig more. All part of a very long deconversion process. You should study it, you will be surprised where it take you.

Jesus was not a Christian, he would have been a Jew. There were no Christians until long after the time of the supposed crucifixion. Paul (Saul) hijacked whatever Christianity was at the time and molded it to his thinking, it was again hijacked by Emperor Constantine and Romanized. Who really knows the intent of the original movement or the actual people involved, there is absolutely no contemporary recorded of any of them.

As for Alexander, there are contemporary records. I know it is just wiki, but they are usually not far off. There is no such reference for Jesus.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_t...oriography

Quote:Apart from a few inscriptions and fragments, texts written by people who actually knew Alexander or who gathered information from men who served with Alexander were all lost.[17] Contemporaries who wrote accounts of his life included Alexander's campaign historian Callisthenes; Alexander's generals Ptolemy and Nearchus; Aristobulus, a junior officer on the campaigns; and Onesicritus, Alexander's chief helmsman. Their works are lost, but later works based on these original sources have survived. The earliest of these is Diodorus Siculus (1st century BC), followed by Quintus Curtius Rufus (mid-to-late 1st century AD), Arrian (1st to 2nd century AD), the biographer Plutarch (1st to 2nd century AD), and finally Justin, whose work dated as late as the 4th century.[17] Of these, Arrian is generally considered the most reliable, given that he used Ptolemy and Aristobulus as his sources, closely followed by Diodorus.[17]
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04-11-2014, 01:57 PM
RE: If you believe Alexander the Great existed, then why not Jesus?
(04-11-2014 01:56 PM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  
(04-11-2014 01:45 PM)lucradis Wrote:  I have no idea who wolf is but it's obvious to me that wolf and OP are the same lunatic.
This is delusion at it's finest. Like holy shit.

Get help wolf. There's religious people and then there's religious nutjobs. You are clearly mentally unstable.

Ahhh well contact Admin and let them tell you what a fucking moron you are.. Im done trying to rescue your credibility Smile

As for the rest of you... impotent rage? No... Im not pissed whatsoever. You've made fools of yourselves which seems to be pretty much all youre capable of... you certainly have no documentation quotes and references compared to mine

My scholars outweigh yours, yours are the VAST minority. My documentation is EARLIER than yours by 14 centuries for alexander, my documentation comes by the TENS OF THOUSANDS if you count the time period between alexander and HIS earliest documentation in a manuscript.

So im very happy showing you for what you are... belligerent paranoid goons devoid of anything other than what you can pull from your collective ass.

I'm very happy with the OP seeing all you have to offer Smile

I have 90 percent of the scholars and acceptance... YOU have your bullshit "no it didn't, because im a moron with a double standard" Smile

Peace out morons

.

And yet you can't cite them.

Trouble rather the tiger in his lair than the sage among his books. For to you kingdoms and their armies are things mighty and enduring, but to him they are but toys of the moment, to be overturned with the flick of a finger.”

― Gordon R. Dickson
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