If you think an ideology or religion is immoral and evil, should you actively oppose
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04-11-2017, 08:05 PM
RE: If you think an ideology or religion is immoral and evil, should you actively oppose
(04-11-2017 03:50 PM)natachan Wrote:  I think you did. It was a long ass thread. I recall I answered something to the effect of I have to spend my efforts in such a way to maximize my effect and while religion is often negative this isn’t the wisest use of my time.
Yep, this was a pretty good size thread not long ago.
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05-11-2017, 05:11 AM (This post was last modified: 05-11-2017 06:18 AM by Thoreauvian.)
RE: If you think an ideology or religion is immoral and evil, should you actively oppose
(04-11-2017 03:33 PM)Greatest I am Wrote:  In whatever belief system you follow, be it humanist, secular, atheistic or religious, does your ideology require you to fight other ideologies or religions you find immoral or harmful to society?

Please specify what ideology you follow in your reply.

I support secular humanistic ideals.

However, your idea that individuals should "fight" against evils is somewhat poorly focussed. We have our legal system, police forces, and military organizations to do our fighting for us, and they are all fighting various perceived evils at roughly the appropriate level of care and expertise. However, individual humans are so flawed in their subjective perceptions of reality that they can't be trusted to consistently make good judgments alone about who and when to fight. So our legal system constantly reviews various individuals' actions when fighting is involved.

As an individual I can vote and speak my mind, and I feel it's my responsibility to do so. I can also study, so my words have some bearing on realities. But I am underqualified to take any fight to the streets, as it were. I would therefore only do so in self-defense in the face of an immediate threat.
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05-11-2017, 08:10 AM
RE: If you think an ideology or religion is immoral and evil, should you actively oppose
I'm wondering why we made so little impact that all our ideas have been forgotten the first time we were asked. I rather think we weren't being asked at all, but that it was all rhetoric.

I don't think he got round to explaining how a "gnostic Christian" can be neither gnostic, nor a Christian. I would suggest some sort of rebrand there. See, even I remember things from the other thread!

I have a website here which discusses the issues and terminology surrounding religion and atheism. It's hopefully user friendly to all.
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05-11-2017, 08:17 AM
RE: If you think an ideology or religion is immoral and evil, should you actively oppose
(04-11-2017 03:33 PM)Greatest I am Wrote:  In whatever belief system you follow, be it humanist, secular, atheistic or religious, does your ideology require you to fight other ideologies or religions you find immoral or harmful to society?


Does your ideology require you to choose that ideology? If it was your own idea, then it is you who decide something is evil and must be opposed. You, not your ideology, are responsible for whatever action you take on the behalf of your self selected ideology. When you shoot that abortion doctor, it is your ass we'll strap into the chair - not a copy of the bible.

The idea that one should subjugate themselves to an ideology is repugnant to me.

“Tiger got to hunt, bird got to fly;
Man got to sit and wonder 'why, why, why?'
Tiger got to sleep, bird got to land;
Man got to tell himself he understand.”

― Kurt Vonnegut, Cat's Cradle
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05-11-2017, 12:42 PM
RE: If you think an ideology or religion is immoral and evil, should you actively oppose
(04-11-2017 03:50 PM)natachan Wrote:  I think you did. It was a long ass thread. I recall I answered something to the effect of I have to spend my efforts in such a way to maximize my effect and while religion is often negative this isn’t the wisest use of my time.

Maximize your efforts to do what?

Is fighting what hurts society, like homophobic and misogynous religions not a worthy issues to put effort into?

Regards
DL
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05-11-2017, 12:46 PM
RE: If you think an ideology or religion is immoral and evil, should you actively oppose
(04-11-2017 03:51 PM)Impulse Wrote:  
(04-11-2017 03:45 PM)Greatest I am Wrote:  Indeed. Now do you wish to answer the question?

The answer is no. You shouldn't actively push your view just because you think you are right and others are wrong. Stick to your group of like-minded people and mind your own business. What you should do though is defend against those who invade your group pushing their own ideologies as "right" and yours as "wrong".

Regardless of whether they are right or wrong?

Or do you just automatically see them as wrong?

Do you recognize that if those who came before you just minded their own business you would be living in a slave holding nation?

Should the North have minded it's own business and allow slavery to continue in the South?

Regards
DL
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05-11-2017, 12:47 PM
RE: If you think an ideology or religion is immoral and evil, should you actively oppose
(04-11-2017 03:53 PM)TheInquisition Wrote:  
(04-11-2017 03:46 PM)Greatest I am Wrote:  I did not see it if I did.

Regards
DL

If you think an ideology or religion is immoral and evil, should you actively oppose

Posting this on a bunch of other forums and lost track of this one?

Not a big deal to me. Is it to you?

Regards
DL
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05-11-2017, 12:51 PM
RE: If you think an ideology or religion is immoral and evil, should you actively oppose
(04-11-2017 04:13 PM)Free Wrote:  
(04-11-2017 03:33 PM)Greatest I am Wrote:  If you think an ideology or religion is immoral and evil, should you actively oppose it?

Christians and Muslims seem to think so as evidenced by Inquisitions and Jihads.

I am a Gnostic Christian and we have always seen it as part of our belief system to oppose immoral and evil belief systems. We are not pacifists but historically have done our ideological fighting with good arguments instead of violence.

We have also called on all good people to actively oppose religions and ideologies that they feel are immoral and not deserving of their respect. That is a take-off on the adage that for evil to grow, all good people need do is nothing. Gnostic Christians believe in spreading good ideologies.

Both Christianity and Islam, slave holding ideologies, have basically developed into intolerant, homophobic and misogynous religions. Both religions have grown themselves by the sword instead of good deeds and good moral arguments and continue with their immoral ways in spite of secular law showing them a better and more moral ways. Some of Christianity has adopted these better ways of late but Islam is lagging and fighting against ideological reform.

Jesus said we would know his people by their works and deeds. That means Jesus would not recognize Christians and Muslims as his people, and neither do I. Jesus would call Christianity and Islam abominations.

Gnostic Christians did call them out for their evils in the past, and I am proudly continuing that tradition and honest irrefutable evaluation based on morality.

In whatever belief system you follow, be it humanist, secular, atheistic or religious, does your ideology require you to fight other ideologies or religions you find immoral or harmful to society?

Please specify what ideology you follow in your reply.

Regards
DL

Any religion or ideology that violates basic human rights should be actively opposed.

The only ideology I follow is the Ethic of Reciprocity.

And yes, you did create this identical thread right HERE.

So .... perhaps a merge is in order ...

The mods will decide.

Is freedom of speech a basic human right?





Regards
DL
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05-11-2017, 12:55 PM
RE: If you think an ideology or religion is immoral and evil, should you actively oppose
(05-11-2017 12:51 PM)Greatest I am Wrote:  
(04-11-2017 04:13 PM)Free Wrote:  Any religion or ideology that violates basic human rights should be actively opposed.

The only ideology I follow is the Ethic of Reciprocity.

And yes, you did create this identical thread right HERE.

So .... perhaps a merge is in order ...

The mods will decide.

Is freedom of speech a basic human right?





Regards
DL

Yes.

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05-11-2017, 12:55 PM
RE: If you think an ideology or religion is immoral and evil, should you actively oppose
(04-11-2017 05:55 PM)jerry mcmasters Wrote:  
(04-11-2017 03:33 PM)Greatest I am Wrote:  If you think an ideology or religion is immoral and evil, should you actively oppose it?

I think "immoral" and "evil" are descriptions of actions, so it depends on the actions. So you would have to be more specific. What actions are taking place? Is the religion or ideology really specific about "carry out these actions." Then I would be better able to decide it I should actively oppose it.

Immoral and evil are subjective and thus individual to each of us.

I do not want to do your thinking for you.

Do you fight those ideologies that you find immoral and evil?

If you need to know what I find immoral, and can agree, I can point to homophobia and misogyny.

Regards
DL
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