If you think an ideology or religion is immoral and evil, should you actively oppose
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
05-11-2017, 01:02 PM
RE: If you think an ideology or religion is immoral and evil, should you actively oppose
(05-11-2017 05:11 AM)Thoreauvian Wrote:  
(04-11-2017 03:33 PM)Greatest I am Wrote:  In whatever belief system you follow, be it humanist, secular, atheistic or religious, does your ideology require you to fight other ideologies or religions you find immoral or harmful to society?

Please specify what ideology you follow in your reply.

I support secular humanistic ideals.

However, your idea that individuals should "fight" against evils is somewhat poorly focussed. We have our legal system, police forces, and military organizations to do our fighting for us, and they are all fighting various perceived evils at roughly the appropriate level of care and expertise. However, individual humans are so flawed in their subjective perceptions of reality that they can't be trusted to consistently make good judgments alone about who and when to fight. So our legal system constantly reviews various individuals' actions when fighting is involved.

As an individual I can vote and speak my mind, and I feel it's my responsibility to do so. I can also study, so my words have some bearing on realities. But I am underqualified to take any fight to the streets, as it were. I would therefore only do so in self-defense in the face of an immediate threat.

I was referring to fighting with arguments and words. Not a physical fight.

You seem to have faith in your governments opinion on religions.

They seem to respect religions that do not deserve respect, especially Christianity and Islam, which are both homophobic and misogynous and slave holding ideologies as they do not speak against slavery and deny many full equality.

Of late, governments do not even speak against Scientology.

Given these facts, why would you just let governments decide what is good and what is evil for society?

Regards
DL
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
05-11-2017, 01:08 PM
RE: If you think an ideology or religion is immoral and evil, should you actively oppose
(05-11-2017 08:17 AM)whateverist Wrote:  
(04-11-2017 03:33 PM)Greatest I am Wrote:  In whatever belief system you follow, be it humanist, secular, atheistic or religious, does your ideology require you to fight other ideologies or religions you find immoral or harmful to society?


Does your ideology require you to choose that ideology? If it was your own idea, then it is you who decide something is evil and must be opposed. You, not your ideology, are responsible for whatever action you take on the behalf of your self selected ideology. When you shoot that abortion doctor, it is your ass we'll strap into the chair - not a copy of the bible.

The idea that one should subjugate themselves to an ideology is repugnant to me.

Yet whatever set of rules and laws you follow can be called an ideology.

I agree that one should not subjugate themselves to any ideology and should always be ready, if a better rule or law comes along, tochange what one already believes.

That is why I chose Gnostic Christianity as it urges us to do just that and bids us be perpetual seekers of the best rules and laws to live life by.

This link speaks well to your view, which I share.





Regards
DL
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
05-11-2017, 01:10 PM
RE: If you think an ideology or religion is immoral and evil, should you actively oppose
(05-11-2017 12:55 PM)Free Wrote:  
(05-11-2017 12:51 PM)Greatest I am Wrote:  The mods will decide.

Is freedom of speech a basic human right?





Regards
DL

Yes.

Nice.

Regards
DL
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
05-11-2017, 01:38 PM
RE: If you think an ideology or religion is immoral and evil, should you actively oppose
(04-11-2017 03:45 PM)Greatest I am Wrote:  
(04-11-2017 03:44 PM)Impulse Wrote:  The problem is "good" is very subjective.

Indeed. Now do you wish to answer the question?

Regards
DL

Cunt detected.

No. My time is my own. You can tilt against windmills, whilst I shall fight for wind power.

living word
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like houseofcantor's post
05-11-2017, 03:10 PM
RE: If you think an ideology or religion is immoral and evil, should you actively oppose
(05-11-2017 01:08 PM)Greatest I am Wrote:  
(05-11-2017 08:17 AM)whateverist Wrote:  Does your ideology require you to choose that ideology? If it was your own idea, then it is you who decide something is evil and must be opposed. You, not your ideology, are responsible for whatever action you take on the behalf of your self selected ideology. When you shoot that abortion doctor, it is your ass we'll strap into the chair - not a copy of the bible.

The idea that one should subjugate themselves to an ideology is repugnant to me.

Yet whatever set of rules and laws you follow can be called an ideology.

No. An ideology need not be held as a set of discrete rules and laws. Nor does it seem fitting or desirable that people insist on turning their life's choices over to a decision tree (i.e., a set of rules).


(05-11-2017 01:08 PM)Greatest I am Wrote:  I agree that one should not subjugate themselves to any ideology and should always be ready, if a better rule or law comes along, tochange what one already believes.

That is why I chose Gnostic Christianity as it urges us to do just that and bids us be perpetual seekers of the best rules and laws to live life by.

This link speaks well to your view, which I share.





Regards
DL

Well lookie there, I guess we do have a little common ground after all. Yes

Of course, my reluctance to subjugating myself to an ideology has more to do with conceiving of it as a set of rules than it does with staying open to a better rule. Through every life choice I think we uncover in ever more detail just what our ideology may be. It isn't a thing we require to know at the outset, though it something we apprehend approximately about as soon as we're able to reason at all.

I wonder if you can tell me what being a gnostic Christian contributes to your stance. I take it by that that you are not an agnostic Christian, someone more modest in their knowledge claims. (There are very few of those around.)

“Tiger got to hunt, bird got to fly;
Man got to sit and wonder 'why, why, why?'
Tiger got to sleep, bird got to land;
Man got to tell himself he understand.”

― Kurt Vonnegut, Cat's Cradle
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
05-11-2017, 03:34 PM
RE: If you think an ideology or religion is immoral and evil, should you actively oppose
(04-11-2017 03:33 PM)Greatest I am Wrote:  If you think an ideology or religion is immoral and evil, should you actively oppose it?

Christians and Muslims seem to think so as evidenced by Inquisitions and Jihads.

I am a Gnostic Christian and we have always seen it as part of our belief system to oppose immoral and evil belief systems. We are not pacifists but historically have done our ideological fighting with good arguments instead of violence.

We have also called on all good people to actively oppose religions and ideologies that they feel are immoral and not deserving of their respect. That is a take-off on the adage that for evil to grow, all good people need do is nothing. Gnostic Christians believe in spreading good ideologies.

Both Christianity and Islam, slave holding ideologies, have basically developed into intolerant, homophobic and misogynous religions. Both religions have grown themselves by the sword instead of good deeds and good moral arguments and continue with their immoral ways in spite of secular law showing them a better and more moral ways. Some of Christianity has adopted these better ways of late but Islam is lagging and fighting against ideological reform.

Jesus said we would know his people by their works and deeds. That means Jesus would not recognize Christians and Muslims as his people, and neither do I. Jesus would call Christianity and Islam abominations.

Gnostic Christians did call them out for their evils in the past, and I am proudly continuing that tradition and honest irrefutable evaluation based on morality.

In whatever belief system you follow, be it humanist, secular, atheistic or religious, does your ideology require you to fight other ideologies or religions you find immoral or harmful to society?

Please specify what ideology you follow in your reply.

Regards
DL


"I am a Gnostic Christian and we have always seen it as part of our belief system to oppose immoral and evil belief systems. We are not pacifists but historically have done our ideological fighting with good arguments instead of violence."

LIke..... These good and non voilent arguments?
Or maybe these ones?
or these?
how bout these?
maybe these?

Such a peaceful religion Christianity is ha, good one.... Open a history book please.

Personally I consider your lying in the OP as an atrocity in itself. A little honesty would go a long way.... But whatever...

As to your question, it's really up to the individual ya? I'm not one to tell others what they SHOULD or SHOULDN'T do, that kinda policing is something you can often find in Christianity though.... Holy war against Muslims much? Kill or convert all non believers, it is the great commission... after a fashion. For I come not to bring peace but the sword ya?. But consider this, I'd be willing to more openly and actively oppose Christianity specifically, however doing so would lead to an incredibly short life for me. I'd prefer to move away from the 300 or so armed Christians in my town before I start making arguments that will get me shot....

What's a good strong argument for a belief in the Christian god? Oh yea a Christian with a gun. I live in this reality every day so I am not impressed by your lies.

DLJ Wrote:And, yes, the principle of freedom of expression works both ways... if someone starts shit, better shit is the best counter-argument.
Big Grin
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes JesseB's post
05-11-2017, 03:39 PM
RE: If you think an ideology or religion is immoral and evil, should you actively oppose
(05-11-2017 12:55 PM)Greatest I am Wrote:  
(04-11-2017 05:55 PM)jerry mcmasters Wrote:  I think "immoral" and "evil" are descriptions of actions, so it depends on the actions. So you would have to be more specific. What actions are taking place? Is the religion or ideology really specific about "carry out these actions." Then I would be better able to decide it I should actively oppose it.

Immoral and evil are subjective and thus individual to each of us.

I do not want to do your thinking for you.

Do you fight those ideologies that you find immoral and evil?

If you need to know what I find immoral, and can agree, I can point to homophobia and misogyny.

Regards
DL

Um... the bible is as dominating of women as the Koran, and um.... kill the gays is a historically common Christian past time....

So..... your definition of morality makes you a very bad evil Christian. If you want to be a good Christian you'll start killing witches and non believers and gays and dressing women up so that no skin shows ect... or have you not read your bible lately?

DLJ Wrote:And, yes, the principle of freedom of expression works both ways... if someone starts shit, better shit is the best counter-argument.
Big Grin
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
05-11-2017, 03:57 PM
RE: If you think an ideology or religion is immoral and evil, should you actively oppose
(04-11-2017 03:33 PM)Greatest I am Wrote:  I am a Gnostic Christian and we have always seen it as part of our belief system to oppose immoral and evil belief systems.

Are you? Gnostic Christian is about a Planck length away from atheist. Come on, now.

living word
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes houseofcantor's post
05-11-2017, 04:15 PM
RE: If you think an ideology or religion is immoral and evil, should you actively oppose
(05-11-2017 03:57 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  
(04-11-2017 03:33 PM)Greatest I am Wrote:  I am a Gnostic Christian and we have always seen it as part of our belief system to oppose immoral and evil belief systems.

Are you? Gnostic Christian is about a Planck length away from atheist. Come on, now.

He doesn't know what that means, and can't even tell us what his label means ... all he can do is reference you to a YouTube.

He generalizes all religions and lays his judgmental pronouncements on all, including the billions he never met.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Bucky Ball's post
05-11-2017, 04:40 PM (This post was last modified: 05-11-2017 04:45 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: If you think an ideology or religion is immoral and evil, should you actively oppose
(05-11-2017 01:08 PM)Greatest I am Wrote:  Yet whatever set of rules and laws you follow can be called an ideology.

I agree that one should not subjugate themselves to any ideology and should always be ready, if a better rule or law comes along, tochange what one already believes.

That is why I chose Gnostic Christianity as it urges us to do just that and bids us be perpetual seekers of the best rules and laws to live life by.

You just contradicted your OP. First you say that all morality is subjective, then you say we should "all" look for the best rules and laws to live by. How is everyone supposed to look for a subjective "set of rules" that apply to all, but are only subjective anyway ? Do you people even stop for one second to think about the crap you post ?

What EXACTLY have you determined you want to maximize in your ethical system, and why have you chosen that ?

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: