If you think an ideology or religion is immoral and evil, should you actively oppose
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06-11-2017, 10:18 PM
RE: If you think an ideology or religion is immoral and evil, should you actively oppose
@Darthdhambalah

Socialism - in Marxist theory - is merely a stage of society transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done. Hardly immoral or evil, not to mention reality for most countries I think at least in regard to pay.

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The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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07-11-2017, 12:40 AM
RE: If you think an ideology or religion is immoral and evil, should you actively oppose
There's (at least) two ways of viewing a personal ideology:

1) The sum total of the conclusions the person has currently developed about how things "should be". This is fluid, as the person sees new information, hears new arguments and thinks things through more.

2) Some set of dogma where the person has decided things must be a certain way, and will refuse to change their mind no matter what.

The former is perfectly reasonable and indeed inevitable. Giving such an ideology a name is unlikely to be accurate, except for in very general terms. The latter is stupid and harmful, in my opinion.

I have a website here which discusses the issues and terminology surrounding religion and atheism. It's hopefully user friendly to all.
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07-11-2017, 08:40 AM
RE: If you think an ideology or religion is immoral and evil, should you actively oppose
(06-11-2017 04:59 PM)Thoreauvian Wrote:  
(06-11-2017 04:00 PM)Greatest I am Wrote:  I hear you and also try to come into a discussion with a smile.

I agree that they are lazy thinkers even when the homework is done for them.

This link speaks to the length that theists go to to not have to think, including the fact that they will intentionally believe a lie out of convenience and their lying priests, preachers or imams saying they should.

The trick religious teachers use is to get people committed socially so they have something big to lose before they start thinking about it all. People hate to lose face and social standing.

Indeed. Peer pressure is mind control. There are scriptures that point is out but I have not read that in any secular publication as yet.

Luke 11:52 Woe unto you, lawyers! for ye have taken away the key of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered.

Mark 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

I think all traditions should be questioned before deciding to adopt them to ones ideology.

Regards
DL
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07-11-2017, 08:46 AM
RE: If you think an ideology or religion is immoral and evil, should you actively oppose
(06-11-2017 05:24 PM)jerry mcmasters Wrote:  
(06-11-2017 03:41 PM)Greatest I am Wrote:  Slippery targets, sure.
If it was easy, you and I would not have to be insulted by their presence and we would not have to concern ourselves with our women, gays, female children and grandchildren being discriminated against by those who discriminate without a just cause.

You and I can do the verbal fighting or leave it to our children.

I think that duty bids us to be the leaders in that verbal fight.

Regards
DL

That's one of those things that sounds very noble but I wonder about practical application. Yes, we should all fight evil, oppose discrimination, eat our vegetables and call our mothers at least once a day, but what does that really look like in real life (the first two anyway)? What have you done in, say, the last six months that demonstrates your carrying out of your duty to verbally fight discrimination? Did it work?

If noble, doing so is it's own reward.

As to what I do, the same as I do here. Try to promote and have my ideas recognized as noble, oe at least worth consideration.

How successful I am, I cannot know as I do not know what the lurkers are thinking.

I do get my share of positive feedback along with more negative ones. It al depends on the issue.

I do not live for likes. I live the way I think I should, be it liked or not.

Regards
DL
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07-11-2017, 08:52 AM
RE: If you think an ideology or religion is immoral and evil, should you actively oppose
(06-11-2017 05:56 PM)darthdambalah Wrote:  Firstly you should always separate ideology from individual while one my be very immoral or bad in your eyes the individual might not. For example while I think that socialism is one of the most evil and immoral ideologies, I will not impose this on individuals because they might think differently to what it entails or have been indoctrinated/fed the wrong facts.(also doing so would make you a thug) It's also very tiring and hard to always fight against immoral things, most times there is nothing you can do and it just drains you or sours your mood working against it.

I cannot impose any ideas on anyone. I can only state my case and hope it is understood and accepted.

I cannot speak to an ideology. It has no ears to hear. I can only speak to people, so trying to separate a person from his ideology is a waste of time, although I do try to speak to issues more than to people.

I try to remember and live by this quote.

Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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DL
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07-11-2017, 08:56 AM
RE: If you think an ideology or religion is immoral and evil, should you actively oppose
(06-11-2017 07:07 PM)IronChariots Wrote:  
(06-11-2017 03:55 PM)Greatest I am Wrote:  A moral and intelligent position.

Are you active in that and how/what are you doing?

I do little in my physical community but am rather busy in web discussion and debate sites. Most of those have a rather small population base though, and the worst right wing sites tend to ban me in short order. I have been banned even for my name, before even posting anything. Sheesh.

Regards
DL
Thanks.
What I'm doing or plan to do?
I've only recently moved to the town I'm in now but plans include..
Getting a newspaper column in the local paper. Christians have one that allows bizarre claims to go unchallenged.
We have a thing call ANZAC day here which is a military remembrance day. Unfortunately the day is stained with religion and not once are atheist solders ever mentioned. When of course what greater sacrifice than an atheist giving their life. So little steps to get a mention in ceremonies. Of course tricky without belittling the sacrifice of afterlife imaginers.
Plans to set up a local pro active atheist group than will among other things, challenge the myth of Christianity being good, will offer counselling for people escaping religion, just generally giving atheism a higher profile, discussion groups, public challenging of street preachers ( they are rare) approaching churches for open discussions, doing community service, being seen to be good without gods etc etc

What can I say.

Enjoy, as you are ----





Regards
DL
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07-11-2017, 09:01 AM
RE: If you think an ideology or religion is immoral and evil, should you actively oppose
(07-11-2017 12:40 AM)Robvalue Wrote:  There's (at least) two ways of viewing a personal ideology:

1) The sum total of the conclusions the person has currently developed about how things "should be". This is fluid, as the person sees new information, hears new arguments and thinks things through more.

2) Some set of dogma where the person has decided things must be a certain way, and will refuse to change their mind no matter what.

The former is perfectly reasonable and indeed inevitable. Giving such an ideology a name is unlikely to be accurate, except for in very general terms. The latter is stupid and harmful, in my opinion.

Well put.

This speaks of the epitome of the foolishness inherent in your latter example.





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DL
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07-11-2017, 11:43 AM
RE: If you think an ideology or religion is immoral and evil, should you actively oppose
(06-11-2017 04:20 PM)Greatest I am Wrote:  
(06-11-2017 10:35 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  So you didn't have to search for your ethics, and build up experience, after all.
You say there you *got* your morality from your religion, (whatever that is).

No.

I did not get my morality from Gnostic Christianity alone. It did refine my paradigm with it though.

As an esoteric ecumenist, I take the best morality, rules and laws from wherever I find them. To not do so would be rather stupid. No?

Did you get all your morality from the one source?

Regards
DL

"Taking the best" means you have a pre-judged set of criteria for what that means. Where did *that* come from ?

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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07-11-2017, 01:47 PM
RE: If you think an ideology or religion is immoral and evil, should you actively oppose
(07-11-2017 11:43 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(06-11-2017 04:20 PM)Greatest I am Wrote:  No.

I did not get my morality from Gnostic Christianity alone. It did refine my paradigm with it though.

As an esoteric ecumenist, I take the best morality, rules and laws from wherever I find them. To not do so would be rather stupid. No?

Did you get all your morality from the one source?

Regards
DL

"Taking the best" means you have a pre-judged set of criteria for what that means. Where did *that* come from ?

It began from my own innate and instinctive sense of morality. My selfish gene.
After reaching the age of reason, thinking took over.

That would apply to everyone including you. No?

I have to guess and ask because you answered my question with a question so I guess you did not know you had that instinct.

Regards
DL
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07-11-2017, 05:07 PM
RE: If you think an ideology or religion is immoral and evil, should you actively oppose
(07-11-2017 01:47 PM)Greatest I am Wrote:  
(07-11-2017 11:43 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  "Taking the best" means you have a pre-judged set of criteria for what that means. Where did *that* come from ?

It began from my own innate and instinctive sense of morality. My selfish gene.
After reaching the age of reason, thinking took over.

That would apply to everyone including you. No?

I have to guess and ask because you answered my question with a question so I guess you did not know you had that instinct.

Regards
DL

Nope. You're not doing very well with this subject I see.
Humans learn their "sense" of morality from the cultures they were raised in, (which can be vastly different), and in various other ways, (education in Ethics). You "selfish gene" is not your sense of "empathy".
You have not explained how it is you validated what you learned and determined that, what in your opinion, is "the best to take". What ethical philosophies have you determined are "the best" and why ?

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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