If you think an ideology or religion is immoral and evil, should you actively oppose
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11-11-2017, 04:47 PM
RE: If you think an ideology or religion is immoral and evil, should you actively oppose
(11-11-2017 02:32 PM)Greatest I am Wrote:  
(10-11-2017 11:03 AM)Free Wrote:  Well, when you really think it through, both Pain and Pleasure are as primal as we can get. At the beginning of life, all things struggled to survive, with the only objective being the innate need for self preservation.

From within that innateness emerged the discomfort of Pain, which was invoked by the primal Fear generated by the threat to the self preservation. This threat was most likely brought on by hunger, another painful sensation, and the only way to appease the hunger was by partaking of subsistence, and this produced the sensation of pleasure.

It's all very very primal. All sentient life experiences this.

I agree with the caveat that self-preservation will take a back seat to the desire to pass up our genes. Reproduction and having children outlive the parents trumps survival and self-preservation.

I see that as natural law even if not all species and parents do the right thing.

Regards
DL

It all comes down to how much pain the parent feels in regards to the possibility of losing the life of the offspring. With humans, a parent could have some kind of issue, such as drug addiction, psychological issues, etc which can impede the normal ability to experience the necessary level of fear required to motivate the self-sacrifice.

Fear is very powerful, and we can see how it affected all of humanity throughout history. Fear is why we have religion.

People are afraid to die. They want some kind of hope that there is some kind of life after death. Therefore, enter religion with promises of eternal life and other good things if we follow the doctrines.

You know the drill ...

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12-11-2017, 11:58 AM
RE: If you think an ideology or religion is immoral and evil, should you actively oppose
(11-11-2017 04:47 PM)Free Wrote:  
(11-11-2017 02:32 PM)Greatest I am Wrote:  I agree with the caveat that self-preservation will take a back seat to the desire to pass up our genes. Reproduction and having children outlive the parents trumps survival and self-preservation.

I see that as natural law even if not all species and parents do the right thing.

Regards
DL

It all comes down to how much pain the parent feels in regards to the possibility of losing the life of the offspring. With humans, a parent could have some kind of issue, such as drug addiction, psychological issues, etc which can impede the normal ability to experience the necessary level of fear required to motivate the self-sacrifice.

Fear is very powerful, and we can see how it affected all of humanity throughout history. Fear is why we have religion.

People are afraid to die. They want some kind of hope that there is some kind of life after death. Therefore, enter religion with promises of eternal life and other good things if we follow the doctrines.

You know the drill ...

Absolutely. Fear is a factor but the fear of not being in a tribe may be greater than fear of death.

Only attributing religions to only that one appeasement of fear of death is perhaps simplistic.

This link speaks to some of the theories out there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0IqYHiejTVM




My view, and the view that many atheists are beginning to agree with, is that religions are mostly created to appease our tribal/hivish instincts.

That is why atheists are starting to open atheist churches.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T64_El2s7FU




Regards
DL
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12-11-2017, 07:39 PM
RE: If you think an ideology or religion is immoral and evil, should you actively oppose
Does this apotheosis thingy wear off ?

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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13-11-2017, 07:25 AM
RE: If you think an ideology or religion is immoral and evil, should you actively oppose
(12-11-2017 07:39 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Does this apotheosis thingy wear off ?

I do not think an experience that gives new knowledge can be ignored. Do you?

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DL
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13-11-2017, 12:18 PM
RE: If you think an ideology or religion is immoral and evil, should you actively oppose
(13-11-2017 07:25 AM)Greatest I am Wrote:  
(12-11-2017 07:39 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Does this apotheosis thingy wear off ?

I do not think an experience that gives new knowledge can be ignored. Do you?

Regards
DL

It is rather hilarious, you here, preaching against religion, and promoting one yourself. Laugh out load
"But mine is the *true religion*. Yawn.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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13-11-2017, 12:55 PM
RE: If you think an ideology or religion is immoral and evil, should you actively oppose
(13-11-2017 07:25 AM)Greatest I am Wrote:  I do not think an experience that gives new knowledge can be ignored. Do you?

Can you define what you mean by knowledge? Experiences can provide a lot but I don't see them providing knowledge since that would require confirmation.

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13-11-2017, 01:47 PM
RE: If you think an ideology or religion is immoral and evil, should you actively oppose
(08-11-2017 02:10 PM)Greatest I am Wrote:  
(14-10-2017 08:19 AM)Chas Wrote:  Who is Gnostic Christian Jesus and why do you keep putting words in his mouth? Consider

He is one of the Jesus' that speaks out of the bible.

Ah, so there is more than one Jesus in the Bible. Can you enlighten me as to how many there are, and how I can tell which one is supposed to be uttering which statements? In particular, which statements can be attributed to "Gnostic Jesus"? And how did you identify these statements?
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13-11-2017, 01:53 PM
RE: If you think an ideology or religion is immoral and evil, should you actively oppose
(13-11-2017 07:25 AM)Greatest I am Wrote:  
(12-11-2017 07:39 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Does this apotheosis thingy wear off ?

I do not think an experience that gives new knowledge can be ignored. Do you?

Regards
DL

Your experiences are personal, which cannot be experienced by anyone else. To you, your experience constitute a personal reality, but to others they do not constitute anything other than your personal beliefs.

That means you cannot expect others to accept what you are saying as being any kind of universal truth. Even with your desire to share what you have experienced, you must understand that it cannot be shared, because it is personal.

On this website you are among those who have viewed all known beliefs systems and have found no evidence whatsoever to accept any of them as having any truth to them. Therefore, those here on this website are convinced beyond all reasonable doubt that whatever God you believe in will exist no more than any of the other gods listed in the Graveyard of the Gods.

When the same kind of thing has been proven to not exist over 250 times, I believe that fantasy must yield to reason for the benefit of rationality and truthfulness.

You see, of those 250 or so gods, you will disbelieve in 249 of them. You are not much different than those of us here because ... we simply disbelieve in 1 less god than you do.

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13-11-2017, 02:57 PM (This post was last modified: 13-11-2017 03:02 PM by Greatest I am.)
RE: If you think an ideology or religion is immoral and evil, should you actively oppose
(13-11-2017 12:55 PM)unfogged Wrote:  
(13-11-2017 07:25 AM)Greatest I am Wrote:  I do not think an experience that gives new knowledge can be ignored. Do you?

Can you define what you mean by knowledge? Experiences can provide a lot but I don't see them providing knowledge since that would require confirmation.

I do not agree with your view.

If you experience a face plant, you will learn the knowledge that you do not like to do a face plant?

Do you need someone to confirm that for you before you accept it as truth?

As to defining knowledge, I think the dictionary definition is quite good.

There is also Gnosis, which is well explained in this link.

If you do not like links, it is basically defined as a deeper knowledge of ones self.

To Freud and Jung, it meant finder the inner father they described in theit Father Complex.
Basically where our instincts are stored.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9QI3nlinYQ

Regards
DL
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13-11-2017, 03:09 PM
RE: If you think an ideology or religion is immoral and evil, should you actively oppose
(13-11-2017 01:47 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(08-11-2017 02:10 PM)Greatest I am Wrote:  He is one of the Jesus' that speaks out of the bible.

Ah, so there is more than one Jesus in the Bible. Can you enlighten me as to how many there are, and how I can tell which one is supposed to be uttering which statements? In particular, which statements can be attributed to "Gnostic Jesus"? And how did you identify these statements?

I see two basic Jesus'.

One is a Jesus created by Rome. He is the pacifist wimp who turns the other cheek and will cary a Romans pack for two miles instead of the required one mile. He is the one that Christians adore due to having died for them, even if substitutionary atonement is quite immoral.

That Jesus is spoken of in this link.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUfGRN4HVrQ&t=703s

That Jesus has a God above somewhere.

The more Gnostic Christian Jesus, who is a more Eastern ideology or Buddhist type speaks as shown below. I will give you a slightly longer link that speaks to that Jesus. I hope you like philosopher Alan Watts.

Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alRNbesf...r_embedded

Regards
DL
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