If your god is ok with it, then ...
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17-09-2014, 07:28 PM
RE: If your god is ok with it, then ...
(16-09-2014 07:25 PM)Rahn127 Wrote:  I live a good happy life as an atheist. I am in good health, have a happy family or as happy as most families (I hope) and fortunate enough to live in a country that has many secular benefits like health care, freedom, democracy, science, etc. If your god is ok with me being an atheist right now, why would me dying change anything ?

I'm more moral than your god. I do something when I see someone getting raped.
I do something when I see illegal actions in my neighborhood. I teach my children ethics. I lead by example.

Your god is ok with watching but lacks the moral & ethical elements to do anything about it. Or maybe he just doesn't exist.

Great, now go and post this somewhere it matters.
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17-09-2014, 08:08 PM
RE: If your god is ok with it, then ...
Even indifference to rape would be more moral than the Biblical God... He fuckin' encourages it!

You know what... I genuinely believe that atheists are actually more moral than theists. Those theists who have read this evil shit in the Bible, and attempt to reconcile it with what we hold to be good and decent today, trouble me greatly. Either they become an apologist for some truly despicable crimes against humanity, or they simply sweep them under the carpet as if they don't matter.

Progressive Christians need to ask themselves some very important questions...

1) Do they believe the Old Testament narrative of the Israelites and their neighboring peoples (including all the genocide, rape and bloodlust) to be a genuine, historical event, supervised by God?

2) If yes, do they accept that God's orders to commit the described acts constitute crimes against humanity?

3) Are they cool with this?

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18-09-2014, 09:18 AM
RE: If your god is ok with it, then ...
(17-09-2014 08:08 PM)Sam Wrote:  Even indifference to rape would be more moral than the Biblical God... He fuckin' encourages it!

You know what... I genuinely believe that atheists are actually more moral than theists. Those theists who have read this evil shit in the Bible, and attempt to reconcile it with what we hold to be good and decent today, trouble me greatly. Either they become an apologist for some truly despicable crimes against humanity, or they simply sweep them under the carpet as if they don't matter.

Progressive Christians need to ask themselves some very important questions...

1) Do they believe the Old Testament narrative of the Israelites and their neighboring peoples (including all the genocide, rape and bloodlust) to be a genuine, historical event, supervised by God?

2) If yes, do they accept that God's orders to commit the described acts constitute crimes against humanity?

3) Are they cool with this?

Is it a question as to how you might measure atheist against Christian morality, since different standards are in play? I do know about the Old Testament commands including capital punishment and extermination of enemies, are you aware that atheism goes against numerous Old Testament commandments, for example, most of the "10 Commandments"? To go a bit further, if an atheist is committed to countermanding god's orders, and if there is a god, then atheists would have to be the least moral people there are (not according to humanist measure but according to scriptures), yes? Do you see how we have a little firestorm here, not because I am moral and you are not, or vice versa, but because of different standards? When you come down to it, don't we believe much the same thing about all kinds of morality except for whether it is moral to obey the rules of god/a god?

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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18-09-2014, 10:10 AM
RE: If your god is ok with it, then ...
(18-09-2014 09:18 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Is it a question as to how you might measure atheist against Christian morality, since different standards are in play? I do know about the Old Testament commands including capital punishment and extermination of enemies, are you aware that atheism goes against numerous Old Testament commandments, for example, most of the "10 Commandments"? To go a bit further, if an atheist is committed to countermanding god's orders, and if there is a god, then atheists would have to be the least moral people there are (not according to humanist measure but according to scriptures), yes? Do you see how we have a little firestorm here, not because I am moral and you are not, or vice versa, but because of different standards? When you come down to it, don't we believe much the same thing about all kinds of morality except for whether it is moral to obey the rules of god/a god?

Of course we believe much the same about morality since the human moral sense is a product of evolution.

Where we differ is that an atheist cedes no authority to the Bible since it is a book of myths from which Christians cherry pick what is or isn't moral.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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18-09-2014, 10:32 AM
RE: If your god is ok with it, then ...
(18-09-2014 09:18 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  ...are you aware that atheism goes against numerous Old Testament commandments, for example, most of the "10 Commandments"?
Just the ones where gawd's ego got too large. Drinking Beverage

And most atheists add a few more like "thou shalt not own people as slaves", for example, which gawd not only neglected to include, but actually gave descriptions of how to "properly" own a slave instead. Dodgy

@DonaldTrump, Patriotism is not honoring your flag no matter what your country/leader does. It's doing whatever it takes to make your country the best it can be as long as its not violent.
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18-09-2014, 02:09 PM
RE: If your god is ok with it, then ...
(18-09-2014 10:10 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(18-09-2014 09:18 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Is it a question as to how you might measure atheist against Christian morality, since different standards are in play? I do know about the Old Testament commands including capital punishment and extermination of enemies, are you aware that atheism goes against numerous Old Testament commandments, for example, most of the "10 Commandments"? To go a bit further, if an atheist is committed to countermanding god's orders, and if there is a god, then atheists would have to be the least moral people there are (not according to humanist measure but according to scriptures), yes? Do you see how we have a little firestorm here, not because I am moral and you are not, or vice versa, but because of different standards? When you come down to it, don't we believe much the same thing about all kinds of morality except for whether it is moral to obey the rules of god/a god?

Of course we believe much the same about morality since the human moral sense is a product of evolution.

Where we differ is that an atheist cedes no authority to the Bible since it is a book of myths from which Christians cherry pick what is or isn't moral.

I've heard and read different atheists give different moral standards and ideas, so do only Christians "cherry pick" from their given playbook? But if I cede that most atheists have some moral framework in common, will you cede that most Christians agree on quite a few moral points, e.g. God is to be worshipped, adultery is wrong, drunkenness and lasciviousness is wrong (talking about Bible-believing Christians only, to be consistent)?

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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18-09-2014, 02:34 PM
RE: If your god is ok with it, then ...
(18-09-2014 02:09 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(18-09-2014 10:10 AM)Chas Wrote:  Of course we believe much the same about morality since the human moral sense is a product of evolution.

Where we differ is that an atheist cedes no authority to the Bible since it is a book of myths from which Christians cherry pick what is or isn't moral.

I've heard and read different atheists give different moral standards and ideas, so do only Christians "cherry pick" from their given playbook? But if I cede that most atheists have some moral framework in common, will you cede that most Christians agree on quite a few moral points, e.g. God is to be worshipped, adultery is wrong, drunkenness and lasciviousness is wrong (talking about Bible-believing Christians only, to be consistent)?

People vary in in morals and ethics, it's just that atheists aren't cherry-picking their avowed playbook like Christians do.

Christians cherry pick because their moral sense and culture are what they use to tell right from wrong.

Only the most delusional fundamentalist actually believes everything in the Bible.

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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18-09-2014, 03:05 PM
RE: If your god is ok with it, then ...
(18-09-2014 02:34 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(18-09-2014 02:09 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  I've heard and read different atheists give different moral standards and ideas, so do only Christians "cherry pick" from their given playbook? But if I cede that most atheists have some moral framework in common, will you cede that most Christians agree on quite a few moral points, e.g. God is to be worshipped, adultery is wrong, drunkenness and lasciviousness is wrong (talking about Bible-believing Christians only, to be consistent)?

People vary in in morals and ethics, it's just that atheists aren't cherry-picking their avowed playbook like Christians do.

Christians cherry pick because their moral sense and culture are what they use to tell right from wrong.

Only the most delusional fundamentalist actually believes everything in the Bible.

It sounds like you are implying that Christian cherry pick a book and atheists don't cherry pick? What is this firm moral standard that all atheists adhere to?

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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18-09-2014, 03:10 PM
RE: If your god is ok with it, then ...
(17-09-2014 07:28 PM)Li_Holodomer Wrote:  
(16-09-2014 07:25 PM)Rahn127 Wrote:  I live a good happy life as an atheist. I am in good health, have a happy family or as happy as most families (I hope) and fortunate enough to live in a country that has many secular benefits like health care, freedom, democracy, science, etc. If your god is ok with me being an atheist right now, why would me dying change anything ?

I'm more moral than your god. I do something when I see someone getting raped.
I do something when I see illegal actions in my neighborhood. I teach my children ethics. I lead by example.

Your god is ok with watching but lacks the moral & ethical elements to do anything about it. Or maybe he just doesn't exist.

Great, now go and post this somewhere it matters.

We have been there, done that, and it doesn't work. Their minds are closed. Any viewpoint other than traditional Catholicism is defined as "error", and "error has no rights". The above argument or anything similar would result in an immediate ban. They won't lower themselves to argue with you. It'll just be "We're right, you're wrong, go away."
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18-09-2014, 03:15 PM
RE: If your god is ok with it, then ...
(18-09-2014 02:09 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(18-09-2014 10:10 AM)Chas Wrote:  Of course we believe much the same about morality since the human moral sense is a product of evolution.

Where we differ is that an atheist cedes no authority to the Bible since it is a book of myths from which Christians cherry pick what is or isn't moral.

I've heard and read different atheists give different moral standards and ideas, so do only Christians "cherry pick" from their given playbook? But if I cede that most atheists have some moral framework in common, will you cede that most Christians agree on quite a few moral points, e.g. God is to be worshipped, adultery is wrong, drunkenness and lasciviousness is wrong (talking about Bible-believing Christians only, to be consistent)?

What's wrong with drunkenness?

Everyone's my bestest friend in the world when I'm drunk.... I can think of far worse things than being a bit pissed.

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