Ignorance about anarchism
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
25-06-2014, 03:50 AM
RE: Ignorance about anarchism
(24-06-2014 06:26 PM)cjlr Wrote:  
(24-06-2014 05:00 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  You have a point you are getting to anytime soon? If it is just crying because you have to pay back into the society you were born in please go else where with it.

Quiet, you.

I'm sure in whatever fantasist wish-fulfillment anarchist utopia anyone cares to imagine, the problem of someone who up and decides, "I don't like you guys, so I'm gonna leech and contribute nothing" would never occur.

And even if it did I'm totally sure there'd be no consequences whatsoever, of course.
I'm gonna leech? Facepalm There is more of national debt on my head than I ever had money, no matter which democracy I live in. How is that not leeching? How is that not greed?

I don't want to leech from the state - but I want my economic opportunities to earn the money so I don't have to leech, which means no taxes. I don't want the government services unfairly securing money to itself through armed taxation. I want them on equal footing with any private company providing the same services that has to get people to pay them voluntarily. At which point you will quickly find that almost everyone will choose someone better.

[Image: 599945_10152294852840515_993484051_n.jpg]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
25-06-2014, 07:36 AM
RE: Ignorance about anarchism
(24-06-2014 03:11 PM)Luminon Wrote:  
(24-06-2014 01:43 PM)Winterwolf00 Wrote:  Be a mars colonist.
[Image: if-you-dont-like-the-government-why-dont...-space.jpg]

You just said you don't want to participate.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
25-06-2014, 07:38 AM
RE: Ignorance about anarchism
(25-06-2014 03:50 AM)Luminon Wrote:  
(24-06-2014 06:26 PM)cjlr Wrote:  Quiet, you.

I'm sure in whatever fantasist wish-fulfillment anarchist utopia anyone cares to imagine, the problem of someone who up and decides, "I don't like you guys, so I'm gonna leech and contribute nothing" would never occur.

And even if it did I'm totally sure there'd be no consequences whatsoever, of course.
I'm gonna leech? Facepalm There is more of national debt on my head than I ever had money, no matter which democracy I live in. How is that not leeching? How is that not greed?

I don't want to leech from the state - but I want my economic opportunities to earn the money so I don't have to leech, which means no taxes. I don't want the government services unfairly securing money to itself through armed taxation. I want them on equal footing with any private company providing the same services that has to get people to pay them voluntarily. At which point you will quickly find that almost everyone will choose someone better.

[Image: 599945_10152294852840515_993484051_n.jpg]

Looks like 'thoughtsfromaconservativemom' doesn't know shit about history if she thinks there were no taxes.

Trouble rather the tiger in his lair than the sage among his books. For to you kingdoms and their armies are things mighty and enduring, but to him they are but toys of the moment, to be overturned with the flick of a finger.”

― Gordon R. Dickson
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
25-06-2014, 08:43 AM
RE: Ignorance about anarchism
(25-06-2014 07:38 AM)Winterwolf00 Wrote:  
(25-06-2014 03:50 AM)Luminon Wrote:  I'm gonna leech? Facepalm There is more of national debt on my head than I ever had money, no matter which democracy I live in. How is that not leeching? How is that not greed?

I don't want to leech from the state - but I want my economic opportunities to earn the money so I don't have to leech, which means no taxes. I don't want the government services unfairly securing money to itself through armed taxation. I want them on equal footing with any private company providing the same services that has to get people to pay them voluntarily. At which point you will quickly find that almost everyone will choose someone better.

[Image: 599945_10152294852840515_993484051_n.jpg]

Looks like 'thoughtsfromaconservativemom' doesn't know shit about history if she thinks there were no taxes.

It's the alternate history that libertarians/anarchists like to employ that ignores everything wrong with their POV and tries to sweep the Gilded Age under the rug. Because that is what they are arguing for a return to the era when meat packing plants would have the bodies of their workers in with the canned meat they were producing.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
25-06-2014, 09:17 AM
RE: Ignorance about anarchism
Oh, hey, vacuous image macros instead of actual thought. Luminon, keep on disappointing.
(can we note that the author is so stupid as to quote "roads" and "streets" as separate items?)

Do you know what the United States was like in 1913?

There weren't any roads as we would recognize them. Cars were not yet anything but a novelty for the very rich. Read a book.

The railroads were built under government auspices. Read a book.

There weren't many schools. Huge swaths of the country were systematically disenfranchised. Children could rarely finish even elementary school, because of the need to begin working to support their families. Only the very wealthy had anything like the opportunities children today do. Read a book.

There were taxes. All kinds of them. People hated them. People complained endlessly about them. Read a book.
(that's part of the reason why McKinley was assassinated - by an anarchist, as it happens...)

The army was tiny because the last major war was 50 years prior, and slapping around decrepit old Spain hardly took any major effort. But it's amazingly disingenuous to lump military history from 177x-1913 together under one ignorant, glib ear-plugging mantra. Read a book.

That same "small government" was the one enabling vicious and endemic racism and discrimination, not to mention horrific and exploitative labour conditions. Read a book.
(protesting those conditions got people killed, let's not forget; I just know the coal miners were really happy that the government didn't infringe on the freedom of mine bosses to open fire on them)

In conclusion: read a book.

... this is my signature!
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes cjlr's post
25-06-2014, 09:22 AM
RE: Ignorance about anarchism
(25-06-2014 09:17 AM)cjlr Wrote:  Oh, hey, vacuous image macros instead of actual thought. Luminon, keep on disappointing.
(can we note that the author is so stupid as to quote "roads" and "streets" as separate items?)

Do you know what the United States was like in 1913?

There weren't any roads as we would recognize them. Cars were not yet anything but a novelty for the very rich. Read a book.

The railroads were built under government auspices. Read a book.

There weren't many schools. Huge swaths of the country were systematically disenfranchised. Children could rarely finish even elementary school, because of the need to begin working to support their families. Only the very wealthy had anything like the opportunities children today do. Read a book.

There were taxes. All kinds of them. People hated them. People complained endlessly about them. Read a book.
(that's part of the reason why McKinley was assassinated - by an anarchist, as it happens...)

The army was tiny because the last major war was 50 years prior, and slapping around decrepit old Spain hardly took any major effort. But it's amazingly disingenuous to lump military history from 177x-1913 together under one ignorant, glib ear-plugging mantra. Read a book.

That same "small government" was the one enabling vicious and endemic racism and discrimination, not to mention horrific and exploitative labour conditions. Read a book.
(protesting those conditions got people killed, let's not forget; I just know the coal miners were really happy that the government didn't infringe on the freedom of mine bosses to open fire on them)

In conclusion: read a book.
It's amazing how ignorant of history these kind of people are.

Trouble rather the tiger in his lair than the sage among his books. For to you kingdoms and their armies are things mighty and enduring, but to him they are but toys of the moment, to be overturned with the flick of a finger.”

― Gordon R. Dickson
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
25-06-2014, 09:26 AM (This post was last modified: 25-06-2014 09:36 AM by Luminon.)
RE: Ignorance about anarchism
(25-06-2014 07:36 AM)Winterwolf00 Wrote:  You just said you don't want to participate.
Yes and that's not the point. Even if I didn't participate, I might want me or other people to have freedom not to support everything that the state does.
Right now, in USA, you buy your groceries and the taxes from that can go anywhere, including the war in Iraq, the war on drugs, Guantanamo maintenance, prison industry, anything.
And if you try not to pay the taxes, you end up in prison, anally raped as 200 000 American inmates every year.

On free market, when you pay something, the money will go to fund more of that something you paid for and maybe make it better, not completely the opposite. You don't pay for medicine and the money go to killing people. Sorry if that upsets you, that is the nature of taxes, they are "non-equivalent" and "non-returnable" as lawyers say.

(25-06-2014 07:38 AM)Winterwolf00 Wrote:  Looks like 'thoughtsfromaconservativemom' doesn't know shit about history if she thinks there were no taxes.
There were taxes - but also less regulations. The state does better as a pure parasite than when it tries to "help" by telling people what they must and can't do.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
25-06-2014, 09:33 AM
RE: Ignorance about anarchism
(25-06-2014 09:22 AM)Winterwolf00 Wrote:  It's amazing how ignorant of history these kind of people are.

It's spectacular, all right. Ain't nothing like ideologically-founded cognitive dissonance to leave a spectator dumbstruck.
(at least Luminon hasn't quite hit the lows of frank-"the north started the civil war"-ksj yet; now there's weapons-grade ignorance)

It's even less fathomable, because even if - in a moment of delusion - we take such claims at face value, there's quite plainly nothing to be drawn from it as stated. Are we supposed to make comparisons to 101 years ago? Society is not even remotely comparable in its size, scope, and complexity. Sure, let's go back to 1913. Life expectancy 60, literacy rate 75%, no electricity, no automobiles, no plastic... What the fuck is that supposed to prove, anyway?

... this is my signature!
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
25-06-2014, 09:41 AM
RE: Ignorance about anarchism
(25-06-2014 09:26 AM)Luminon Wrote:  Right now, in USA, you buy your groceries and the taxes from that can go anywhere, including the war in Iraq...

The one that ended three years ago? That one?

(25-06-2014 09:26 AM)Luminon Wrote:  ... the war on drugs, Guantanamo maintenance, prison industry, anything.

"Anything" is a great cop-out.

(25-06-2014 09:26 AM)Luminon Wrote:  And if you try not to pay the taxes, you end up in prison, anally raped as 200 000 American inmates every year.

You really like mentioning rape, huh?

You do realize that prison conditions have massively deteriorated since they were privatized, yes?

...

Incidentally, there's a really simple way to have a voice in those matters. It's called voting.

Oh, wait; you're not American. Are you really, genuinely pathologically incapable of coming up with any other examples? You literally never do so. And I get that that you're just copying your screed from the copypasta repositories, but would it kill you to refer to something besides a 4% segment of the global population you're not even part of?

(25-06-2014 09:26 AM)Luminon Wrote:  On free market, when you pay something, the money will go to fund more of that something you paid for and maybe make it better, not completely the opposite.

Oh, totally. When you buy plastic, it helps the friendly lovable folks at BP and Shell do their good works.

Hobo

(25-06-2014 09:26 AM)Luminon Wrote:  There were taxes - but also less regulations. The state does better as a pure parasite than when it tries to "help" by telling people what they must and can't do.

Read a book.

For the love of god, read a book.

... this is my signature!
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes cjlr's post
25-06-2014, 09:43 AM
RE: Ignorance about anarchism
(25-06-2014 09:33 AM)cjlr Wrote:  
(25-06-2014 09:22 AM)Winterwolf00 Wrote:  It's amazing how ignorant of history these kind of people are.

It's spectacular, all right. Ain't nothing like ideologically-founded cognitive dissonance to leave a spectator dumbstruck.
(at least Luminon hasn't quite hit the lows of frank-"the north started the civil war"-ksj yet; now there's weapons-grade ignorance)

It's even less fathomable, because even if - in a moment of delusion - we take such claims at face value, there's quite plainly nothing to be drawn from it as stated. Are we supposed to make comparisons to 101 years ago? Society is not even remotely comparable in its size, scope, and complexity. Sure, let's go back to 1913. Life expectancy 60, literacy rate 75%, no electricity, no automobiles, no plastic... What the fuck is that supposed to prove, anyway?
Is this an argument? Then I can argue the same. Why should governments exist today? The society today is not even remotely comparable in its size, scope, and complexity, compared let's say to 19th century when many of them appeared, or even earlier.

And, I don't remember government having any credit for invention of electricity, automobiles and plastic. That is all science and free market.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: