Igtheism
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12-10-2012, 09:57 AM
RE: Igtheism
(12-10-2012 08:41 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(11-10-2012 07:55 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...Who-is-God

Hmm...I guess I am more accurately an Igtheist then.

You might be an igdeist, but to be an igtheist would be ridiculous.

What?

Ig = Ignorrant (of)
Deism= (the belief) that reason and observation of the natural world are sufficient to determine the existence of a creator, accompanied with the rejection of revelation and authority as a source of religious knowledge.

Igtheism
Ig = Ignorrant (of)
Theist = (the belief) that at least one deity exists

Both make sense to me, but since Igdeism is a word you just fabricated to mean Igtheism, I am going the the word that's accepted.

kingschosen Wrote:So... basically... an agnostic atheist?
To say you are agnostic essentially means - You don't know whether or not God exists, still awaiting data, but you know the data is unlikely to ever come.

Atheist means - You reject the belief in God

Ignostic means - What the hell is God? I can't judge whether or not God is real or not until I know what (a) God is. If you think abut it Ignostiicism is incompatible with Agnosticism, Atheism, and Theism.

BuckyBall Wrote:Me too. "Atheism" is a description of a reactive position to "other peoples specific gods", which is fine, as so far, they are all ridiculous notions. Igtheism is MY personal position, without referencing the "other people's god(s)".
BravomClap this is precisely how I feel, but I like your explanation better.

Quote:Great, now I am going to act like a total ass but I usually do see the word God/god as a well defined word. Either as a supernatural, all powerful/ or super powerful creator of the universe, or humans.

In truth, every word is meaningless, but when we give them meaning do they cease becoming "meaningless"? Well, most people give the word God/god a meaning in their mind. It's only those meaning I am concerned about because, as far as I know, those meanings are the ones that have an actual effect on how this world is going to end up.

Wether god X has revealed himself, or has given himself meaning, because God Y is the one most people believe( with God C,D,E) the ideas, or meanings(that the people that believe give to the name God/god) of those Gods/gods have the potential to affect me. Those are the ones I take precedence.

God, now I am a full-blown anti-theist aren't I.


Christian God, isn't compatible with Zeus, or Odin, or Adonis, or Coyote. Some of them are creators of the universe, some are creators of nothing, all are Gods. Some are omnipotent, some are not. Some are of earth, some are not. Using that information, what is God? God is not well defined.

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12-10-2012, 10:50 AM
RE: Igtheism
(12-10-2012 09:57 AM)Dark Light Wrote:  
(12-10-2012 08:41 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  You might be an igdeist, but to be an igtheist would be ridiculous.

What?

Ig = Ignorrant (of)
Deism= (the belief) that reason and observation of the natural world are sufficient to determine the existence of a creator, accompanied with the rejection of revelation and authority as a source of religious knowledge.

Igtheism
Ig = Ignorrant (of)
Theist = (the belief) that at least one deity exists

Both make sense to me, but since Igdeism is a word you just fabricated to mean Igtheism, I am going the the word that's accepted.

Not at all. Theists make specific claims about their deity that have been proven to contradict nature. Deists, however, belief some form of higher power exists or existed, but don't have any specific claims on it. Gnostic atheism is logical, agnostic adeism is logical. Igtheism is silly.

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12-10-2012, 11:10 AM
 
RE: Igtheism
(12-10-2012 01:53 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(12-10-2012 01:41 AM)Egor Wrote:  No wonder Caesar fed them to the lions.
Laughat Bowing

I think I'm going to to get that "calligraphied", and framed, and put on my wall. Big Grin

It would make a great bumper sticker. Especially next to an image of The Greatest Most Reverend Peter Popoff.



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12-10-2012, 03:16 PM
RE: Igtheism
(12-10-2012 10:50 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(12-10-2012 09:57 AM)Dark Light Wrote:  What?

Ig = Ignorrant (of)
Deism= (the belief) that reason and observation of the natural world are sufficient to determine the existence of a creator, accompanied with the rejection of revelation and authority as a source of religious knowledge.

Igtheism
Ig = Ignorrant (of)
Theist = (the belief) that at least one deity exists

Both make sense to me, but since Igdeism is a word you just fabricated to mean Igtheism, I am going the the word that's accepted.

Not at all. Theists make specific claims about their deity that have been proven to contradict nature. Deists, however, belief some form of higher power exists or existed, but don't have any specific claims on it. Gnostic atheism is logical, agnostic adeism is logical. Igtheism is silly.

Theists don't necessarily claim to know anything about a deity, only that one exists. For example "I don't know which religion is right, but the very existence of the universe proves the existence of a god." That is actually a more rational argument than what most Theists present.

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13-10-2012, 03:23 AM
RE: Igtheism
(12-10-2012 03:16 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  
(12-10-2012 10:50 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  Not at all. Theists make specific claims about their deity that have been proven to contradict nature. Deists, however, belief some form of higher power exists or existed, but don't have any specific claims on it. Gnostic atheism is logical, agnostic adeism is logical. Igtheism is silly.

Theists don't necessarily claim to know anything about a deity, only that one exists. For example "I don't know which religion is right, but the very existence of the universe proves the existence of a god." That is actually a more rational argument than what most Theists present.

In which case they'd be a deist or pantheist. Theists make specific claims about a deity. What its name is, what its attributes are, what its gender is, how or when it contacted humans, are all part of theism.

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13-10-2012, 03:32 AM
RE: Igtheism
Another reason ignosticism is a stupid stance is because atheism makes a negative claim and theism makes a positive claim.

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13-10-2012, 03:08 PM
RE: Igtheism
Just what we need, another term to argue about. Drinking Beverage

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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13-10-2012, 03:12 PM (This post was last modified: 13-10-2012 03:25 PM by Atothetheist.)
RE: Igtheism
(12-10-2012 09:57 AM)Dark Light Wrote:  
(12-10-2012 08:41 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  You might be an igdeist, but to be an igtheist would be ridiculous.

What?

Ig = Ignorrant (of)
Deism= (the belief) that reason and observation of the natural world are sufficient to determine the existence of a creator, accompanied with the rejection of revelation and authority as a source of religious knowledge.

Igtheism
Ig = Ignorrant (of)
Theist = (the belief) that at least one deity exists

Both make sense to me, but since Igdeism is a word you just fabricated to mean Igtheism, I am going the the word that's accepted.

kingschosen Wrote:So... basically... an agnostic atheist?
To say you are agnostic essentially means - You don't know whether or not God exists, still awaiting data, but you know the data is unlikely to ever come.

Atheist means - You reject the belief in God

Ignostic means - What the hell is God? I can't judge whether or not God is real or not until I know what (a) God is. If you think abut it Ignostiicism is incompatible with Agnosticism, Atheism, and Theism.

BuckyBall Wrote:Me too. "Atheism" is a description of a reactive position to "other peoples specific gods", which is fine, as so far, they are all ridiculous notions. Igtheism is MY personal position, without referencing the "other people's god(s)".
BravomClap this is precisely how I feel, but I like your explanation better.

Quote:Great, now I am going to act like a total ass but I usually do see the word God/god as a well defined word. Either as a supernatural, all powerful/ or super powerful creator of the universe, or humans.

In truth, every word is meaningless, but when we give them meaning do they cease becoming "meaningless"? Well, most people give the word God/god a meaning in their mind. It's only those meaning I am concerned about because, as far as I know, those meanings are the ones that have an actual effect on how this world is going to end up.

Wether god X has revealed himself, or has given himself meaning, because God Y is the one most people believe( with God C,D,E) the ideas, or meanings(that the people that believe give to the name God/god) of those Gods/gods have the potential to affect me. Those are the ones I take precedence.

God, now I am a full-blown anti-theist aren't I.


Christian God, isn't compatible with Zeus, or Odin, or Adonis, or Coyote. Some of them are creators of the universe, some are creators of nothing, all are Gods. Some are omnipotent, some are not. Some are of earth, some are not. Using that information, what is God? God is not well defined.
The point I was trying to make is that when they bring up a God concept, the person who brings it up defines it very well. Such as if friend of yours is a Christian, isn't God well defined if he is a Christian? Or maybe he is a Norse believer, than the concept is also well defined, same with Zues, Adonis, Coyote. These are well defined concepts, and they have a recurring theme to them as well.

By welldefined, I mean to the believer, well defined enough to reject them based on the information that we can gather.

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13-10-2012, 05:23 PM
RE: Igtheism
(13-10-2012 03:08 PM)Chas Wrote:  Just what we need, another term to argue about. Drinking Beverage

I think the word is cool. I think the belief is stupid.

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13-10-2012, 09:48 PM
RE: Igtheism
(13-10-2012 03:23 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(12-10-2012 03:16 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  Theists don't necessarily claim to know anything about a deity, only that one exists. For example "I don't know which religion is right, but the very existence of the universe proves the existence of a god." That is actually a more rational argument than what most Theists present.

In which case they'd be a deist or pantheist. Theists make specific claims about a deity. What its name is, what its attributes are, what its gender is, how or when it contacted humans, are all part of theism.

Pantheist is a theist, just a subset. Theism, in it's broadest sense is just someone that claims there is at least a god. Now you could say that the term isn't specific enough for your tastes, but it is still correct.

Logica Humano Wrote:Another reason ignosticism is a stupid stance is because atheism makes a negative claim and theism makes a positive claim.
Ignosticism makes more sense than than Atheism to me. Atheism is making a negative claim, but against and undefined thing. Igtheism says you need to define what the god concept means before we can make any claims, positive, negative or neutral (i.e. I don't have a clue). For practical reasons Atheism is much easier to use (I don't believe in any god that I have ever heard of) but it doesn't really make sense for the folks that claim nature is god, because I have yet to find an Atheist that really believed that nature doesn't exist, only argued that it can't be proven to exist (a la Descartes). I will continue to use the label Atheism in casual conversation but if the conversation wasn't as casual I would use the term Igtheism to distinguish beliefs.
AtotheTheist Wrote:The point I was trying to make is that when they bring up a God concept, the person who brings it up defines it very well. Such as if friend of yours is a Christian, isn't God well defined if he is a Christian? Or maybe he is a Norse believer, than the concept is also well defined, same with Zues, Adonis, Coyote. These are well defined concepts, and they have a recurring theme to them as well.

By welldefined, I mean to the believer, well defined enough to reject them based on the information that we can gather.

I don't disagree with that, but the problem is when you talk about god in a general sense, to mean the concept of God. This is why true Atheism doesn't always work as a blanket term to reject all gods. If the only requirement for being an Atheist was to reject a god than everyone would be Atheists, but that is not the definition of Atheism. Atheism presumes that all Gods are false, without having a concrete idea of what attributes something must have to be considered a god. See the nature comment above.

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