Igtheism
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18-10-2012, 10:49 AM
RE: Igtheism
(18-10-2012 01:40 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  ... If I told you there was a dragon in my garage, would you believe me? ...

Thank you, Mr. Sagan. One of my favorite analogies.Sleepy

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18-10-2012, 10:54 AM
RE: Igtheism
(18-10-2012 10:38 AM)Dark Light Wrote:  
(18-10-2012 01:40 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  Disbelieving because of the lack of evidence is the most logical position anyone could ever take. If I told you there was a dragon in my garage, would you believe me? You might come with me to go check it out, yes? But what if I failed to mention that it was invisible? And then, when you try to check for heat signatures, I mention it does not radiate anything detectable? What would you do? Wouldn't you disbelieve me? Why? Because of the lack of evidence, right? But what if I eventually supplied you with physical, tangible evidence? I would assume you would believe me. That is the position of atheism.

The negative claim that atheism makes causes igtheism to be a ridiculous belief.

Congratulations, you've just switched gears from to assumptive knowledge to false analogy! Laughat Since you are going to bitch if I don't address why this is a false analogy I will do so. To say you have an invisible dragon that is undetectable is to define its parameters. An Igtheist can say I don't believe in that magic dragon because the nature of it has been defined, and no evidence has been provided to determine whether it is there or not; but your analogy does not question what a dragon is, in addition, as I have mentioned it put parameters on what a dragon is which is not true for god because it is undefined. Logica, you do NOT get it...


As I have said before, if you present an undefined term, you are wasting my time. There is no point in saying "something exists out there". Okay? And? Something exists? Great! Drinking Beverage There is literally no point in that "something" without defining it.

You and your infinite ignorance have displayed that you do not grasp the topic at hand. Congratulations on calling me a bitch though. Very professional of you. Thumbsup

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18-10-2012, 10:54 AM
RE: Igtheism
(18-10-2012 10:38 AM)Dark Light Wrote:  Congratulations, you've just switched gears from to assumptive knowledge to false analogy! Laughat Since you are going to bitch if I don't address why this is a false analogy I will do so. To say you have an invisible dragon that is undetectable is to define its parameters. An Igtheist can say I don't believe in that magic dragon because the nature of it has been defined, and no evidence has been provided to determine whether it is there or not; but your analogy does not question what a dragon is, in addition, as I have mentioned it put parameters on what a dragon is which is not true for god because it is undefined. Logica, you do NOT get it...

Still disagree that "god" is undefined. Over-defined, certainly. An excess of conflicting definitions, certainly. Plenty of people incapable of accurately defining it, sure. I'm also pretty sure there are folks who believe in it without a well-formed definition. But overall, I think it has been defined.

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18-10-2012, 12:14 PM
RE: Igtheism
(18-10-2012 10:54 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(18-10-2012 10:38 AM)Dark Light Wrote:  ...Since you are going to bitch if I don't address why this is a false analogy I will do so.
... Logica, you do NOT get it...
As I have said before, if you present an undefined term, you are wasting my time. There is no point in saying "something exists out there". Okay? And? Something exists? Great! Drinking Beverage There is literally no point in that "something" without defining it.

You and your infinite ignorance have displayed that you do not grasp the topic at hand. Congratulations on calling me a bitch though. Very professional of you. Thumbsup

Dark Light did not call you a bitch. Perhaps you misread.

Also Logica, perhaps you have misread the definition of ignosticism... you keep stating it is a belief. The position is one of irrelevance which has nothing to do with belief or disbelief - it is irrelevant. Immaterial.

If defining terms so completely, even overly so, is what makes your world go around, then more power to you. It is the very reason why I am an ignostic - have been for many years - all this god and religion stuff has never had anything to do with my internal life. If someone believes in something that's their problem - it is irrelevant to me. Someone else's delusion has little or no relevance in my life.

***
I've have seen many science fiction movies and tv shows about space travel. I have never entertained any notion that space travel in those tv shows or movies has anything to do with seeing the Apollo Astronauts walk on the moon. Those tv shows and movies are irrelevant and immaterial to events in reality. There are a few cursory connections of content but there is no substantial reality going on.

Blurring reality and fiction with a similarity to or a connection of content... that is where belief begins. That is also where delusion and psychosis begins because that blurring is a confusion or a distortion of reality.

To me, when people start talking about god or religion... they may as well be discussing Star Trek or Dr Who. I know about Star Trek and Dr Who, many of the things that go on in their respective worlds are quite profound and poetic. Though they may raise many serious philosophic questions, provide moral messages, and contain desirable attributes, they are still quite irrelevant.

I don't want any Trekkies or Whovians up my ass about this shit, either... so I'll hop back in my ignostic closet. Dodgy

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18-10-2012, 01:46 PM
RE: Igtheism
(18-10-2012 12:14 PM)kim Wrote:  
(18-10-2012 10:54 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  As I have said before, if you present an undefined term, you are wasting my time. There is no point in saying "something exists out there". Okay? And? Something exists? Great! Drinking Beverage There is literally no point in that "something" without defining it.

You and your infinite ignorance have displayed that you do not grasp the topic at hand. Congratulations on calling me a bitch though. Very professional of you. Thumbsup

Dark Light did not call you a bitch. Perhaps you misread.

Also Logica, perhaps you have misread the definition of ignosticism... you keep stating it is a belief. The position is one of irrelevance which has nothing to do with belief or disbelief - it is irrelevant. Immaterial.

If defining terms so completely, even overly so, is what makes your world go around, then more power to you. It is the very reason why I am an ignostic - have been for many years - all this god and religion stuff has never had anything to do with my internal life. If someone believes in something that's their problem - it is irrelevant to me. Someone else's delusion has little or no relevance in my life.

***
I've have seen many science fiction movies and tv shows about space travel. I have never entertained any notion that space travel in those tv shows or movies has anything to do with seeing the Apollo Astronauts walk on the moon. Those tv shows and movies are irrelevant and immaterial to events in reality. There are a few cursory connections of content but there is no substantial reality going on.

Blurring reality and fiction with a similarity to or a connection of content... that is where belief begins. That is also where delusion and psychosis begins because that blurring is a confusion or a distortion of reality.

To me, when people start talking about god or religion... they may as well be discussing Star Trek or Dr Who. I know about Star Trek and Dr Who, many of the things that go on in their respective worlds are quite profound and poetic. Though they may raise many serious philosophic questions, provide moral messages, and contain desirable attributes, they are still quite irrelevant.

I don't want any Trekkies or Whovians up my ass about this shit, either... so I'll hop back in my ignostic closet. Dodgy

Ignosticism is the belief that any other theological position assumes too much about the concept of God. I have been continuously arguing that it is a stupid argument because it includes atheism and agnosticism.

The difference between Star Trek and Doctor Who is that people do not create massive religions, governments, and wars over said topics. There are people who genuinely believe in "God". The term "atheism" defines the person who does not believe in God. This is why ignosticism is stupid. Atheism is only a position because someone has created a deity for someone disbelieve in.

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18-10-2012, 02:44 PM
RE: Igtheism
(18-10-2012 01:46 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  Ignosticism is the belief that any other theological position assumes too much about the concept of God. I have been continuously arguing that it is a stupid argument because it includes atheism and agnosticism.
Ok. However, in my opinion... atheists and agnostics assume too much about the concept of god... certainly seem to continuously argue about it, anyway. All simply place too much significance into the assumption that any of it is relevant to existence. Dodgy

(18-10-2012 01:46 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  The difference between Star Trek and Doctor Who is that people do not create massive religions, governments, and wars over said topics. There are people who genuinely believe in "God".
You are saying no one would create massive religions, governments, and wars over fiction? So... the bible is not fiction? Sorry, m'bad. I was working under the assumption that it is fiction. Completely blows my ignostic shit out of the water. I am rocked to my very core; this could destroy my attempts to make lunch. Drinking Beverage

(18-10-2012 01:46 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  The term "atheism" defines the person who does not believe in God. This is why ignosticism is stupid. Atheism is only a position because someone has created a deity for someone disbelieve in.
A person who questions or has no belief in a deity might identify as an agnostic or atheist. A person who is unaffected by any aspect of belief might identify with ignosticism... aspects of belief might include "I don't believe.", I do not know what to believe.", "Define belief.", and "Define deity.".

Ignostics aren't usually that picky - we usually would just rather talk about something else, anyway. I might speculate, incorrectly I know, that the term ignosticism might not come from the word ignorance, rather the word ignore... that might just be me, though. Dodgy

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18-10-2012, 02:59 PM
RE: Igtheism
(18-10-2012 02:44 PM)kim Wrote:  ...A person who is unaffected by any aspect of belief..

Who on earth is currently unaffected by religion?

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18-10-2012, 03:07 PM
RE: Igtheism
Logica Humano Wrote:As I have said before, if you present an undefined term, you are wasting my time.
Good, then you are an Igtheist, because this is exactly what Igtheism is.

Logica Humano Wrote:There is no point in saying "something exists out there". Okay? And? Something exists? Great! Drinking Beverage
Igtheism doesn't claim that "something out there exists." Perhaps you should try reading what Igtheism is again.

Logica Humano Wrote:There is literally no point in that "something" without defining it.
Again, this is what Igtheism is saying, so you are an Igtheist.

Logica Humano Wrote:You and your infinite ignorance have displayed that you do not grasp the topic at hand.
That is what you have been doing. Cool

Logica Humano Wrote:Congratulations on calling me a bitch though. Very professional of you. Thumbsup

I never called you a bitch. I said that you would bitch (aka gripe, complain, whine) if I said your analagy was false without explaining why. If you are going to reply you should bother reading what I wrote, especially if you are going to quote me.

Cardinal Smurf Wrote:Still disagree that "god" is undefined. Over-defined, certainly. An excess of conflicting definitions, certainly. Plenty of people incapable of accurately defining it, sure. I'm also pretty sure there are folks who believe in it without a well-formed definition. But overall, I think it has been defined.

If there are many conflicting definitions of what God, or a god is then is is pointless to speak of a god, or gods in a general sense because there is no universal definition. It is fine to say I don't believe in Thor, or the Christian God, or Vishnu because those have all been well defined individually.

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18-10-2012, 03:21 PM
RE: Igtheism
(18-10-2012 03:07 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  
Logica Humano Wrote:As I have said before, if you present an undefined term, you are wasting my time.
Good, then you are an Igtheist, because this is exactly what Igtheism is.
There's a difference between a poorly defined term and an undefined term.

(18-10-2012 03:07 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  
Cardinal Smurf Wrote:Still disagree that "god" is undefined. Over-defined, certainly. An excess of conflicting definitions, certainly. Plenty of people incapable of accurately defining it, sure. I'm also pretty sure there are folks who believe in it without a well-formed definition. But overall, I think it has been defined.

If there are many conflicting definitions of what God, or a god is then is is pointless to speak of a god, or gods in a general sense because there is no universal definition. It is fine to say I don't believe in Thor, or the Christian God, or Vishnu because those have all been well defined individually.

Agreed, because the term "god" is *poorly* defined, not undefined. There is a difference.

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18-10-2012, 03:23 PM
RE: Igtheism
(18-10-2012 12:14 PM)kim Wrote:  I don't want any Trekkies or Whovians up my ass about this shit, either... so I'll hop back in my ignostic closet. Dodgy

No! Wait! I'm both, and I thought it was well written! Nice!

Ah, shit. Undecided

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