Igtheism
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18-10-2012, 04:27 PM
RE: Igtheism
(18-10-2012 02:44 PM)kim Wrote:  
(18-10-2012 01:46 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  The difference between Star Trek and Doctor Who is that people do not create massive religions, governments, and wars over said topics. There are people who genuinely believe in "God".
You are saying no one would create massive religions, governments, and wars over fiction? So... the bible is not fiction? Sorry, m'bad. I was working under the assumption that it is fiction. Completely blows my ignostic shit out of the water. I am rocked to my very core; this could destroy my attempts to make lunch. Drinking Beverage

I am not certain if you were joking or not, but when I read this part... I was just disappointed. The point Logica was probably trying to make was that nobody fights wars ( true wars) over something they know is false. No Whovian will fight and kill for Doctor Who, religion is different. People will kill for a perceived truth ( which most think religion is), and will go to war for such ideas, but never for a Publicly known lie.

Seriously, if you were joking, good for you, but your reply was literally kind of dumb.

My personal view is that the word God/god maybe not well defined, but when a person uses such words, they have a well defined concept in their head, and thus the concept is well-defined.

Wether or not the word is, the person who uses the word has a defined concept to the word, and once you ask for the definition, you can definitely argue against it.

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18-10-2012, 04:27 PM (This post was last modified: 18-10-2012 04:47 PM by kim.)
RE: Igtheism
(18-10-2012 02:59 PM)Cardinal Smurf Wrote:  
(18-10-2012 02:44 PM)kim Wrote:  ...A person who is unaffected by any aspect of belief..

Who on earth is currently unaffected by religion?

Consider Hmm... yes, poor choice of words. How about:

A person who is not lead or emotionally influenced by any aspect of belief might identify with ignosticism... aspects of belief might include "I don't believe.", I do not know what to believe.", "Define belief.", and "Define deity.".

Thing is, I find the concept of god or religion or belief of any sort completely preposterous when placed next to the knowledge that polio is endemic in Pakistan. If I were to "believe" in something... it might be humanity. However, there are times when even that can be a bit of a stretch. Dodgy

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18-10-2012, 04:32 PM
RE: Igtheism
(18-10-2012 04:27 PM)kim Wrote:  
(18-10-2012 02:59 PM)Cardinal Smurf Wrote:  Who on earth is currently unaffected by religion?

Consider Hmm... yes, poor choice of words. How about:

A person who is not lead or emotionally influenced by any aspect of belief might identify with ignosticism... aspects of belief might include "I don't believe.", I do not know what to believe.", "Define belief.", and "Define deity.".

Thing is, I find the concept of god or religion or belief of any sort completely preposterous when placed next to the knowledge that polio is endemic in Pakistan. If I were to "believe" in something... it might be humanity. However, there are times when even that can a bit of a stretch. Dodgy

Yes, better. I hope I can help restore your faith in humanity. It's important. Thumbsup

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18-10-2012, 04:45 PM
RE: Igtheism
(18-10-2012 04:27 PM)Atothetheist Wrote:  
(18-10-2012 02:44 PM)kim Wrote:  You are saying no one would create massive religions, governments, and wars over fiction? So... the bible is not fiction? Sorry, m'bad. I was working under the assumption that it is fiction. Completely blows my ignostic shit out of the water. I am rocked to my very core; this could destroy my attempts to make lunch. Drinking Beverage

I am not certain if you were joking or not, but when I read this part... I was just disappointed. The point Logica was probably trying to make was that nobody fights wars ( true wars) over something they know is false. No Whovian will fight and kill for Doctor Who, religion is different. People will kill for a perceived truth ( which most think religion is), and will go to war for such ideas, but never for a Publicly known lie.

Seriously, if you were joking, good for you, but your reply was literally kind of dumb.

My personal view is that the word God/god maybe not well defined, but when a person uses such words, they have a well defined concept in their head, and thus the concept is well-defined.

Wether or not the word is, the person who uses the word has a defined concept to the word, and once you ask for the definition, you can definitely argue against it.

Yes, it was a joke ... at the expense of missing my lunch...

I believe I originally stated...
Quote:...when people start talking about god or religion... they may as well be discussing Star Trek or Dr Who. I know about Star Trek and Dr Who, many of the things that go on in their respective worlds are quite profound and poetic. Though they may raise many serious philosophic questions, provide moral messages, and contain desirable attributes, they are still quite irrelevant.

Which was my point at the time.
Logica H then stated...
Quote:The difference between Star Trek and Doctor Who is that people do not create massive religions, governments, and wars over said topics. There are people who genuinely believe in "God"

However, the difference between those tv shows and the bible/god/religion is ... there is no difference - they are all fiction.

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18-10-2012, 05:00 PM
RE: Igtheism
(18-10-2012 04:45 PM)kim Wrote:  
(18-10-2012 04:27 PM)Atothetheist Wrote:  I am not certain if you were joking or not, but when I read this part... I was just disappointed. The point Logica was probably trying to make was that nobody fights wars ( true wars) over something they know is false. No Whovian will fight and kill for Doctor Who, religion is different. People will kill for a perceived truth ( which most think religion is), and will go to war for such ideas, but never for a Publicly known lie.

Seriously, if you were joking, good for you, but your reply was literally kind of dumb.

My personal view is that the word God/god maybe not well defined, but when a person uses such words, they have a well defined concept in their head, and thus the concept is well-defined.

Wether or not the word is, the person who uses the word has a defined concept to the word, and once you ask for the definition, you can definitely argue against it.

Yes, it was a joke ... at the expense of missing my lunch...

I believe I originally stated...
Quote:...when people start talking about god or religion... they may as well be discussing Star Trek or Dr Who. I know about Star Trek and Dr Who, many of the things that go on in their respective worlds are quite profound and poetic. Though they may raise many serious philosophic questions, provide moral messages, and contain desirable attributes, they are still quite irrelevant.

Which was my point at the time.
Logica H then stated...
Quote:The difference between Star Trek and Doctor Who is that people do not create massive religions, governments, and wars over said topics. There are people who genuinely believe in "God"

However, the difference between those tv shows and the bible/god/religion is ... there is no difference - they are all fiction.
The difference is the majority believes one is truth, while the other one is a KNOWN fiction.

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18-10-2012, 05:20 PM
RE: Igtheism
(18-10-2012 05:00 PM)Atothetheist Wrote:  The difference is the majority believes one is truth, while the other one is a KNOWN fiction.
What majority are you talking about?

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18-10-2012, 05:43 PM
RE: Igtheism
The theists are the majority, are they not?

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19-10-2012, 07:36 AM
RE: Igtheism
(18-10-2012 02:44 PM)kim Wrote:  Ok. However, in my opinion... atheists and agnostics assume too much about the concept of god... certainly seem to continuously argue about it, anyway. All simply place too much significance into the assumption that any of it is relevant to existence. Dodgy

How is it that atheists assume too much about the concept of God? Every deity that supposedly exists has been defined in some form or fashion, therefore providing a substantial foundation for disbelief.

(18-10-2012 02:44 PM)kim Wrote:  You are saying no one would create massive religions, governments, and wars over fiction? So... the bible is not fiction? Sorry, m'bad. I was working under the assumption that it is fiction. Completely blows my ignostic shit out of the water. I am rocked to my very core; this could destroy my attempts to make lunch. Drinking Beverage

Where did I say the Bible wasn't fiction? In that statement, I said there are people who honestly believe it to be truth. You are telling me that because I disbelieve in the Bible and the Abrahamic deity (for example) that I am assuming too much about the concept of god?

(18-10-2012 02:44 PM)kim Wrote:  A person who questions or has no belief in a deity might identify as an agnostic or atheist. A person who is unaffected by any aspect of belief might identify with ignosticism... aspects of belief might include "I don't believe.", I do not know what to believe.", "Define belief.", and "Define deity.".

Anyone who claims religious and desitic beliefs don't affect them are clearly foolish and very ignorant.

(18-10-2012 02:44 PM)kim Wrote:  Ignostics aren't usually that picky - we usually would just rather talk about something else, anyway. I might speculate, incorrectly I know, that the term ignosticism might not come from the word ignorance, rather the word ignore... that might just be me, though. Dodgy

Irrelevant.

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19-10-2012, 07:41 AM (This post was last modified: 19-10-2012 01:41 PM by Logica Humano.)
RE: Igtheism
(18-10-2012 03:07 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  Good, then you are an Igtheist, because this is exactly what Igtheism is.

Not at all. I do not claim atheism assumes too much about the existence of a deity.

(18-10-2012 03:07 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  Igtheism doesn't claim that "something out there exists." Perhaps you should try reading what Igtheism is again.

I never said Igtheism did, for the statement was a hypothetical situation in which a person says, "Something exists out there," but does not define it.

(18-10-2012 03:07 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  Again, this is what Igtheism is saying, so you are an Igtheist.

Not at all. If an undefined term is brought forth to me, I don't simply ignore it. I ask for evidence and a definition.

(18-10-2012 03:07 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  That is what you have been doing. Cool

So you find yourself witty because you "nope chuktesta"'d? Classy.

(18-10-2012 03:07 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  I never called you a bitch. I said that you would bitch (aka gripe, complain, whine) if I said your analagy was false without explaining why. If you are going to reply you should bother reading what I wrote, especially if you are going to quote me.

Fair enough.

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19-10-2012, 03:27 PM
RE: Igtheism
(18-10-2012 04:27 PM)Atothetheist Wrote:  Seriously, if you were joking, good for you, but your reply was literally kind of dumb.

Well, Jonathan Swift probably wouldn't have been invited to too many parties either. Drinking Beverage

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