Illiberal Left Shuts Down Free Speech with Violence (Again)
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02-02-2017, 02:05 PM
RE: Illiberal Left Shuts Down Free Speech with Violence (Again)
(02-02-2017 02:02 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  
(02-02-2017 01:56 PM)Dom Wrote:  We can agree that they were on the authoritarian side of things. Other than that, unless you catch one of these masked folks, we know nothing.

We know they were anti-Trump. If Trump is on the authoritarian side (I say he is) then where else is there room for them? Either you claim a false-flag operation, or you admit they are on the left. There is nowhere else to go.

Because only liberals are anti-Trump? Because the only option is that they rioted for purely political reasons and not that a minority of assholes took advantage of a situation to wreak havoc and it wasn't about politics? How do you KNOW these people who incited violence are on the left?

FALSE DICHOTOMY. "I can't conceive of a logical way these people are on the right, SO THEY MUST BE ON THE LEFT!!!!"

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02-02-2017, 02:07 PM
RE: Illiberal Left Shuts Down Free Speech with Violence (Again)
You "know" they were anti-trump the same way you "know" they were leaning left politically. (They = the violent minority)

You don't know. You assume based on your own inherent bias. If a theist came in here using the same tactics, you'd be foaming at the mouth. But when you do it, you're correct because...reasons. Drinking Beverage

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02-02-2017, 02:12 PM
RE: Illiberal Left Shuts Down Free Speech with Violence (Again)
(02-02-2017 02:05 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(02-02-2017 02:02 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  We know they were anti-Trump. If Trump is on the authoritarian side (I say he is) then where else is there room for them? Either you claim a false-flag operation, or you admit they are on the left. There is nowhere else to go.

Because only liberals are anti-Trump? Because the only option is that they rioted for purely political reasons and not that a minority of assholes took advantage of a situation to wreak havoc and it wasn't about politics? How do you KNOW these people who incited violence are on the left?

FALSE DICHOTOMY. "I can't conceive of a logical way these people are on the right, SO THEY MUST BE ON THE LEFT!!!!"

You're just being silly now. Even if they thought Trump wasn't the best representation of the Authoritarian right there wouldn't be large amount of authoritarian right-wingers so upset at the Trump machine they would be willing to set fire to the world. This is the best voice for their opinions in decades. On the other hand, the Trump brand authoritarian right is diametrically opposed to the illiberal left. They have way more motivation, and means to do what happened. It's not because I can't conceive of an alternative, it's because Occam's Razor says I'm right.

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02-02-2017, 02:18 PM
RE: Illiberal Left Shuts Down Free Speech with Violence (Again)
(02-02-2017 02:12 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  
(02-02-2017 02:05 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Because only liberals are anti-Trump? Because the only option is that they rioted for purely political reasons and not that a minority of assholes took advantage of a situation to wreak havoc and it wasn't about politics? How do you KNOW these people who incited violence are on the left?

FALSE DICHOTOMY. "I can't conceive of a logical way these people are on the right, SO THEY MUST BE ON THE LEFT!!!!"

You're just being silly now. Even if they thought Trump wasn't the best representation of the Authoritarian right there wouldn't be large amount of authoritarian right-wingers so upset at the Trump machine they would be willing to set fire to the world. This is the best voice for their opinions in decades. On the other hand, the Trump brand authoritarian right is diametrically opposed to the illiberal left. They have way more motivation, and means to do what happened. It's not because I can't conceive of an alternative, it's because Occam's Razor says I'm right.

Because there were no "Never Trump" people in the Republican Wing? Seriously? You know you can google this stuff, right? Moderates don't count any more? Or Libertarians who don't like Trump either? The only political opinions that exist in your world are right and left?

And you still haven't told us how you KNOW they were on the left and anti-Trump and not that they were assholes taking advantage of the protests to be violent and that they weren't there to peacefully protest at all (and therefore aren't affiliated with either political end of the spectrum because they weren't there for political reasons)

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02-02-2017, 02:18 PM
RE: Illiberal Left Shuts Down Free Speech with Violence (Again)
(02-02-2017 09:47 AM)Dark Light Wrote:  
(02-02-2017 09:43 AM)kineo Wrote:  Milo can fuck right off. Piece of fucking human garbage that he is.

I have no problem you you thinking he is a piece of shit. The question was whether you not you find it appropriate, palatable, or disgusting to use violence to inhibit his right to speak freely.

Violence? No. But I am more than fine with Twitter kicking him off their (private) platform, and I hope Trump follows suit.

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02-02-2017, 02:29 PM
RE: Illiberal Left Shuts Down Free Speech with Violence (Again)
(02-02-2017 02:18 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(02-02-2017 02:12 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  You're just being silly now. Even if they thought Trump wasn't the best representation of the Authoritarian right there wouldn't be large amount of authoritarian right-wingers so upset at the Trump machine they would be willing to set fire to the world. This is the best voice for their opinions in decades. On the other hand, the Trump brand authoritarian right is diametrically opposed to the illiberal left. They have way more motivation, and means to do what happened. It's not because I can't conceive of an alternative, it's because Occam's Razor says I'm right.

Because there were no "Never Trump" people in the Republican Wing? Seriously? You know you can google this stuff, right? Moderates don't count any more? Or Libertarians who don't like Trump either? The only political opinions that exist in your world are right and left?

And you still haven't told us how you KNOW they were on the left and anti-Trump and not that they were assholes taking advantage of the protests to be violent and that they weren't there to peacefully protest at all (and therefore aren't affiliated with either political end of the spectrum because they weren't there for political reasons)

The Never Trump Republicans were not authoritarian. As you've said, they were libertarian. Once again, this is were we agree. No one, left or right, is a libertarian who wants to suppress anyone's first amendment right. With the bottom half of the compass ruled out you have the two options I stated.

Apolitical organized groups showed up for a politically motivated speech to burn things, punch people, chant, and throw rocks because they are assholes is beyond ridiculous. It seems as if you see all if the left as Team Good Guys, and I see Team Liberty as the good guys. I'd much rather have a far right or far left lover of liberty than an authoritarian of any leaning.

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02-02-2017, 02:30 PM
RE: Illiberal Left Shuts Down Free Speech with Violence (Again)
(02-02-2017 02:29 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  
(02-02-2017 02:18 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Because there were no "Never Trump" people in the Republican Wing? Seriously? You know you can google this stuff, right? Moderates don't count any more? Or Libertarians who don't like Trump either? The only political opinions that exist in your world are right and left?

And you still haven't told us how you KNOW they were on the left and anti-Trump and not that they were assholes taking advantage of the protests to be violent and that they weren't there to peacefully protest at all (and therefore aren't affiliated with either political end of the spectrum because they weren't there for political reasons)

The Never Trump Republicans were not authoritarian. As you've said, they were libertarian. Once again, this is were we agree. No one, left or right, is a libertarian who wants to suppress anyone's first amendment right. With the bottom half of the compass ruled out you have the two options I stated.

Apolitical organized groups showed up for a politically motivated speech to burn things, punch people, chant, and throw rocks because they are assholes is beyond ridiculous. It seems as if you see all if the left as Team Good Guys, and I see Team Liberty as the good guys. I'd much rather have a far right or far left lover of liberty than an authoritarian of any leaning.

"Apolitical organized groups showed up for a politically motivated speech to burn things, punch people, chant, and throw rocks because they are assholes is beyond ridiculous. "

Because it never happens that people riot in an unorganized way. Like say...when a team wins a championship or something...

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02-02-2017, 02:33 PM
RE: Illiberal Left Shuts Down Free Speech with Violence (Again)
(02-02-2017 02:30 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(02-02-2017 02:29 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  The Never Trump Republicans were not authoritarian. As you've said, they were libertarian. Once again, this is were we agree. No one, left or right, is a libertarian who wants to suppress anyone's first amendment right. With the bottom half of the compass ruled out you have the two options I stated.

Apolitical organized groups showed up for a politically motivated speech to burn things, punch people, chant, and throw rocks because they are assholes is beyond ridiculous. It seems as if you see all if the left as Team Good Guys, and I see Team Liberty as the good guys. I'd much rather have a far right or far left lover of liberty than an authoritarian of any leaning.

"Apolitical organized groups showed up for a politically motivated speech to burn things, punch people, chant, and throw rocks because they are assholes is beyond ridiculous. "

Because it never happens that people riot in an unorganized way. Like say...when a team wins a championship or something...

The celebration may not be organized, but they all showed up to an orgaized sport, wearing the same shit, cheering for the same team....it's pretty fucking organized dude.

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02-02-2017, 02:33 PM
RE: Illiberal Left Shuts Down Free Speech with Violence (Again)
(02-02-2017 12:09 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  
(02-02-2017 11:42 AM)kineo Wrote:  Read this for a good breakdown on why Milo should not be speaking at universities. If he wants to bully students, that he needs to have a platform off-campus and not funded or supported by the university.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/barrierbrea...versities/

He was invited and funded by a private group of students. Also, it seems to me he was certainly the person being bullied in this case. It's not like he is being funded by taxpayers or anything. You know, like a church.


Did you read the article? Milo is a fucking douchebag of the highest order. Shocking


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After Milo, in his speech, finished making fun of criticism over the phrase “man up” he said:

“I’ll tell you one UW-Milwaukee student that does not need to man up, and that is (Student’s name).“

Here’s the horrifying thing: this trans student was in the crowd. Called out. And then your picture — which was, as the trans woman stated later, earlier in her transition — flips up on the screen. Right there. In front of the auditorium. On the big screen. And in front of thousands of other people watching online.
It gets worse. Milo then says:

“Do you know about (Student’s Name)? Have any of you come into contact with this person?”

Hold it. This student is in the crowd, probably with her friends, and now the friends have been shamed for being in contact with her, too. They did not ask for this. They did not know this was coming. They’re sitting there, stunned. He keeps going.

“This quote unquote nonbinary trans—you’re not laughing now, are you, you know him—this quote unquote nonbinary trans woman forced his way into the women’s locker rooms this year. Who knows about this story, any of you? I see you don’t even read your own student media.”

It. would. not. have. been. a. big. deal. Most apparently did not even know. No. Big. Deal. So what? Now she goes into the locker room that matches her gender. She’s able to concentrate on her education — because if she looks like a woman and goes into the men’s locker room, there’s harassment there. So she goes to the bathroom that matches her gender, and everything is fine. Again, most of the students didn’t even really know. She’s been able to get educated in peace. But after this, every time she walks into a classroom, she’s that trans woman Milo made fun of in front of thousands of people. Every time she walks into a locker room, she now may have to watch her back. Before she had decent job prospects, presumably. Now, her name is out there, and she has to worry whether her possible employer or coworkers will realize she is that trans woman Milo made fun of in a front of thousands of people — and now millions, as several have seen the story since.

She did not ask for this. All she wanted to do was go to the bathroom that matched her gender.


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Milo can take a long walk off a short peer for all I care, that fucking wanker. If he thinks that kind of shit is acceptable, he has no place being given a platform at any campus. Dodgy

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02-02-2017, 02:35 PM
RE: Illiberal Left Shuts Down Free Speech with Violence (Again)
(02-02-2017 02:33 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(02-02-2017 12:09 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  He was invited and funded by a private group of students. Also, it seems to me he was certainly the person being bullied in this case. It's not like he is being funded by taxpayers or anything. You know, like a church.


Did you read the article? Milo is a fucking douchebag of the highest order. Shocking


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


After Milo, in his speech, finished making fun of criticism over the phrase “man up” he said:

“I’ll tell you one UW-Milwaukee student that does not need to man up, and that is (Student’s name).“

Here’s the horrifying thing: this trans student was in the crowd. Called out. And then your picture — which was, as the trans woman stated later, earlier in her transition — flips up on the screen. Right there. In front of the auditorium. On the big screen. And in front of thousands of other people watching online.
It gets worse. Milo then says:

“Do you know about (Student’s Name)? Have any of you come into contact with this person?”

Hold it. This student is in the crowd, probably with her friends, and now the friends have been shamed for being in contact with her, too. They did not ask for this. They did not know this was coming. They’re sitting there, stunned. He keeps going.

“This quote unquote nonbinary trans—you’re not laughing now, are you, you know him—this quote unquote nonbinary trans woman forced his way into the women’s locker rooms this year. Who knows about this story, any of you? I see you don’t even read your own student media.”

It. would. not. have. been. a. big. deal. Most apparently did not even know. No. Big. Deal. So what? Now she goes into the locker room that matches her gender. She’s able to concentrate on her education — because if she looks like a woman and goes into the men’s locker room, there’s harassment there. So she goes to the bathroom that matches her gender, and everything is fine. Again, most of the students didn’t even really know. She’s been able to get educated in peace. But after this, every time she walks into a classroom, she’s that trans woman Milo made fun of in front of thousands of people. Every time she walks into a locker room, she now may have to watch her back. Before she had decent job prospects, presumably. Now, her name is out there, and she has to worry whether her possible employer or coworkers will realize she is that trans woman Milo made fun of in a front of thousands of people — and now millions, as several have seen the story since.

She did not ask for this. All she wanted to do was go to the bathroom that matched her gender.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Milo can take a long walk off a short peer for all I care, that fucking wanker. Dodgy

I'm not defending Milo. I'm defending civility and free-speech.

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