Illiberal Left Shuts Down Free Speech with Violence (Again)
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02-02-2017, 02:55 PM (This post was last modified: 02-02-2017 03:03 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Illiberal Left Shuts Down Free Speech with Violence (Again)
(02-02-2017 09:50 AM)ShadowProject Wrote:  But you poke a bear long enough and he is going to lash out.

In this case they poked the SDS forgetting that the meterologists take note when you change the weather. At least that's where I see this going. Didn't turn out well as I recall.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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02-02-2017, 02:55 PM
RE: Illiberal Left Shuts Down Free Speech with Violence (Again)
(02-02-2017 02:50 PM)BryanS Wrote:  This is more prevalent among campus environments, and young activists on the left, but it is a concerning development on the left. That sort of position is rightfully called "illiberal" in the sense that freedom of speech used to be inseparable from liberal politics. It is concerning to me the numbers of other posters on this thread who want to claim a position of anti-free speech as the liberal position.

[Image: bfd60517347f6be6d75da71e03b843ff.jpg]

Milo is a bully, and he has no place on any campus. It's not a liberal or a conservative thing, it's a 'people should not be allowed to target and single out individual students for harassment so bad they have to leave campus' thing.

[Image: E3WvRwZ.gif]
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02-02-2017, 02:57 PM
RE: Illiberal Left Shuts Down Free Speech with Violence (Again)
(02-02-2017 02:55 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(02-02-2017 02:50 PM)BryanS Wrote:  This is more prevalent among campus environments, and young activists on the left, but it is a concerning development on the left. That sort of position is rightfully called "illiberal" in the sense that freedom of speech used to be inseparable from liberal politics. It is concerning to me the numbers of other posters on this thread who want to claim a position of anti-free speech as the liberal position.

[Image: bfd60517347f6be6d75da71e03b843ff.jpg]

Milo is a bully, and he has no place on any campus. It's not a liberal or a conservative thing, it's a 'people should not be allowed to target and single out individual students for harassment so bad they have to leave campus' thing.

I liked the first picture/gif better... Sadcryface

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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02-02-2017, 02:58 PM
RE: Illiberal Left Shuts Down Free Speech with Violence (Again)
(02-02-2017 02:35 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  
(02-02-2017 02:33 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Did you read the article? Milo is a fucking douchebag of the highest order. Shocking


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


After Milo, in his speech, finished making fun of criticism over the phrase “man up” he said:

“I’ll tell you one UW-Milwaukee student that does not need to man up, and that is (Student’s name).“

Here’s the horrifying thing: this trans student was in the crowd. Called out. And then your picture — which was, as the trans woman stated later, earlier in her transition — flips up on the screen. Right there. In front of the auditorium. On the big screen. And in front of thousands of other people watching online.
It gets worse. Milo then says:

“Do you know about (Student’s Name)? Have any of you come into contact with this person?”

Hold it. This student is in the crowd, probably with her friends, and now the friends have been shamed for being in contact with her, too. They did not ask for this. They did not know this was coming. They’re sitting there, stunned. He keeps going.

“This quote unquote nonbinary trans—you’re not laughing now, are you, you know him—this quote unquote nonbinary trans woman forced his way into the women’s locker rooms this year. Who knows about this story, any of you? I see you don’t even read your own student media.”

It. would. not. have. been. a. big. deal. Most apparently did not even know. No. Big. Deal. So what? Now she goes into the locker room that matches her gender. She’s able to concentrate on her education — because if she looks like a woman and goes into the men’s locker room, there’s harassment there. So she goes to the bathroom that matches her gender, and everything is fine. Again, most of the students didn’t even really know. She’s been able to get educated in peace. But after this, every time she walks into a classroom, she’s that trans woman Milo made fun of in front of thousands of people. Every time she walks into a locker room, she now may have to watch her back. Before she had decent job prospects, presumably. Now, her name is out there, and she has to worry whether her possible employer or coworkers will realize she is that trans woman Milo made fun of in a front of thousands of people — and now millions, as several have seen the story since.

She did not ask for this. All she wanted to do was go to the bathroom that matched her gender.


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Milo can take a long walk off a short peer for all I care, that fucking wanker. Dodgy

I'm not defending Milo. I'm defending civility and free-speech.

When the ACLU defended Neo Nazi's right to demonstrate in Skokie, IL, they were defending free speech, not the Nazis. It's a straw man argument to attack DL on the contents of Milo's speech if he is only defending his right to speech, not the content.
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02-02-2017, 02:58 PM
RE: Illiberal Left Shuts Down Free Speech with Violence (Again)
(02-02-2017 02:48 PM)Heath_Tierney Wrote:  
(02-02-2017 02:35 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  I'm not defending Milo. I'm defending civility and free-speech.

No you're not.

You're defending bigotry and hate under the guise of free speech.

It's just like Trump saying, "I'm not PC" and then using that as cover to say the most racist, misogynistic, hateful things imaginable.

It's transparent. We see right through you.

You caught me. I care nothing about free-speech so long as Hitler incarnate can castrate Jews, hang blacks, slit the throats of atheists, and enslave Muslims.

May I ask your political persuasion, because I have a feeling it's not a Republican-leaning Never-Trumper.

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02-02-2017, 03:01 PM
RE: Illiberal Left Shuts Down Free Speech with Violence (Again)
(02-02-2017 02:55 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(02-02-2017 02:50 PM)BryanS Wrote:  This is more prevalent among campus environments, and young activists on the left, but it is a concerning development on the left. That sort of position is rightfully called "illiberal" in the sense that freedom of speech used to be inseparable from liberal politics. It is concerning to me the numbers of other posters on this thread who want to claim a position of anti-free speech as the liberal position.

[Image: bfd60517347f6be6d75da71e03b843ff.jpg]

Milo is a bully, and he has no place on any campus. It's not a liberal or a conservative thing, it's a 'people should not be allowed to target and single out individual students for harassment so bad they have to leave campus' thing.


At least you own up to being opposed to free speech.
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02-02-2017, 03:07 PM
RE: Illiberal Left Shuts Down Free Speech with Violence (Again)
I sure wish he'd hurry up and launch the nukes.

'Murican Canadian
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02-02-2017, 03:07 PM
RE: Illiberal Left Shuts Down Free Speech with Violence (Again)
(02-02-2017 01:09 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  "...and certainly never by violence."

Also, I don't see anyone here advocating that violence was or is the answer in terms of how best to respond. What has been pointed out, repeatedly, is that people like this expect and want violence and that response shouldn't be unexpected given their rhetoric.

I get it Dude. That said, I still don't personally on any level condone *violence of any kind regardless of what the rhetoric is. It just seems to me (and I might be wrong) but a university has someone speak (it doesn't really matter if the university extends an invite or it's arranged by a group of students if it's on university property the university should have a say), people don't like it, protest it, violent people do violent things and the university cancels the speech. I also understand this person is divisive and generally a dick, but then why ask or allow him to speak in the first place?

Why do you think they "expect and want violence"? Just curious. I know I'm sorta verging off topic here too so...

*Same reason I didn't spank my kids. They actually preferred spankings than being made to sit on a time out.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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02-02-2017, 03:07 PM
RE: Illiberal Left Shuts Down Free Speech with Violence (Again)
(02-02-2017 03:01 PM)BryanS Wrote:  
(02-02-2017 02:55 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  [Image: bfd60517347f6be6d75da71e03b843ff.jpg]

Milo is a bully, and he has no place on any campus. It's not a liberal or a conservative thing, it's a 'people should not be allowed to target and single out individual students for harassment so bad they have to leave campus' thing.


At least you own up to being opposed to free speech.

That isn't what he said or implied. The right to free speech doesn't mean a right to any and every venue to express your opinion. Nor does it protect you from dissent.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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02-02-2017, 03:08 PM
RE: Illiberal Left Shuts Down Free Speech with Violence (Again)
(02-02-2017 02:50 PM)BryanS Wrote:  
(02-02-2017 10:55 AM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  Personally, I think they should have let him speak, they could have followed it with another speech that refuted him.

I find people love to whine about "free speech" but what they really mean is "I want to say what I want to say, but you don't get say anything unless you agree with me."

Double plus thumbs up Smile Americans on the left used to hold freedom of speech as a sacrosanct right, but that is no longer the case. Significant numbers of the left now only believe in freedom of speech that they agree with, and those same individuals want to treat offensive speech as a crime.

This is more prevalent among campus environments, and young activists on the left, but it is a concerning development on the left. That sort of position is rightfully called "illiberal" in the sense that freedom of speech used to be inseparable from liberal politics. It is concerning to me the numbers of other posters on this thread who want to claim a position of anti-free speech as the liberal position.


This used to be the position of the American Left:

Quote:Those who won our independence by revolution were not cowards. They did not fear political change. They did not exalt order at the cost of liberty. To courageous, self-reliant men, with confidence in the power of free and fearless reasoning applied through the processes of popular government, no danger flowing from speech can be deemed clear and present, unless the incidence of the evil apprehended is so imminent that it may befall before there is opportunity for full discussion. If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence.--Spreme Ct Justice Louis Brandeis

I guess I'm not a liberal, then? Because I don't believe you should be able to do what Milo does, without repercussion. Even if that repercussion is just venues refusing to host events where you can spew the shit that Milo does in the article that I linked. He has a pattern of doing this. It's time that people stop giving him a platform.

Seriously, read the blog post I linked before if you haven't already. Then tell me that what he did should be okay. At least read what EvolutionKills quoted from it. Milo turned someone's life upside down with his shit. Someone just trying to live their life. He's doesn't just attack an idea. He attacks people. He pins the idea on them, then attacks the individuals. That's fucking unacceptable- quite especially in the environment in which he speaks.

Should be "allowed" to speak at places? Yes. Should he always have a right to speak at whatever venue he wants? Fucking NO.

Milo speaking is just not a fucking free speech issue anymore. He's taken it beyond that with his attacks on people. It's not about whether I disagree with him (and yes, I do), but if ANYONE on the left pulled the shit that he does, I'd want them blacklisted from certain venues, too.
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