Illiberal Left Shuts Down Free Speech with Violence (Again)
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02-02-2017, 03:15 PM
RE: Illiberal Left Shuts Down Free Speech with Violence (Again)
(02-02-2017 03:07 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(02-02-2017 01:09 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  "...and certainly never by violence."

Also, I don't see anyone here advocating that violence was or is the answer in terms of how best to respond. What has been pointed out, repeatedly, is that people like this expect and want violence and that response shouldn't be unexpected given their rhetoric.

I get it Dude. That said, I still don't personally on any level condone *violence of any kind regardless of what the rhetoric is. It just seems to me (and I might be wrong) but a university has someone speak (it doesn't really matter if the university extends an invite or it's arranged by a group of students if it's on university property the university should have a say), people don't like it, protest it, violent people do violent things and the university cancels the speech. I also understand this person is divisive and generally a dick, but then why ask or allow him to speak in the first place?

Why do you think they "expect and want violence"? Just curious. I know I'm sorta verging off topic here too so...

*Same reason I didn't spank my kids. They actually preferred spankings than being made to sit on a time out.

"That said, I still don't personally on any level condone *violence of any kind regardless of what the rhetoric is. "

I haven't seen anyone here condone it.

"I also understand this person is divisive and generally a dick, but then why ask or allow him to speak in the first place?"

That is what some of us are arguing is the ultimate mistake, letting him speak there. Stupid move. Stupid move to invite him. Stupid move to let him. Stupid move to listen him.

"Why do you think they "expect and want violence"?"

Because they can point to the violence that pops up to try and paint themselves as the victims. As Emma put it, it gives them a convenient excuse to play martyr. "Oh woe is us! We just wanted to express our bigoted and hateful opinions and look at how we were treated! Those angry mean liberals just don't want free speech for anyone but themselves."

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02-02-2017, 03:16 PM
RE: Illiberal Left Shuts Down Free Speech with Violence (Again)
(02-02-2017 03:12 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  
(02-02-2017 02:58 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  You caught me. I care nothing about free-speech so long as Hitler incarnate can castrate Jews, hang blacks, slit the throats of atheists, and enslave Muslims.

May I ask your political persuasion, because I have a feeling it's not a Republican-leaning Never-Trumper.

So how do you differentiate what Milo says and what Hitler said 85 years ago? Do you ever draw a line in the sand at any point and say...this is wrong I won't stand for this? Just curious.

Hitler used violence, so the moment Milo starts rounding ethnic groups up for gas chambers I will put on my uniform and take down his "troll army". I somehow don't think it will come to that because he speaks at Berkley though...

Can't believe I had to explain the difference between Hitler and a gay Jew...

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02-02-2017, 03:16 PM
RE: Illiberal Left Shuts Down Free Speech with Violence (Again)
(02-02-2017 03:11 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  
(02-02-2017 03:07 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  That isn't what he said or implied. The right to free speech doesn't mean a right to any and every venue to express your opinion. Nor does it protect you from dissent.

I am a dissenting opinion to Milo, so you can fuck off there, and he was invited to the venue so you can fuck off there too.

Right to free speech is simply that government will not take steps to muzzle anyone, no matter what stupid or dangerous shit they spout. As long as no one is arresting the fucker simply for saying things, his right to free speech is not being violated.

This is not hard.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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02-02-2017, 03:16 PM
RE: Illiberal Left Shuts Down Free Speech with Violence (Again)
(02-02-2017 03:13 PM)Emma Wrote:  
(02-02-2017 03:10 PM)BryanS Wrote:  That is exactly what he "implied", and that is exactly your position. You have the same respect for free speech that Stalin had in the Soviet Union and Castro had in Cuba.

You'll have to justify that statement. Because that is a complete load of bullshit.

No one is advocating that Milo be jailed, or hauled off to a concentration camp, for fucks sake.

But they are justifying the violent response by explaining it away, and they are taking the position that Milo "should not be allowed to speak".
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02-02-2017, 03:18 PM
RE: Illiberal Left Shuts Down Free Speech with Violence (Again)
(02-02-2017 03:10 PM)BryanS Wrote:  
(02-02-2017 03:07 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  That isn't what he said or implied. The right to free speech doesn't mean a right to any and every venue to express your opinion. Nor does it protect you from dissent.

That is exactly what he "implied", and that is exactly your position. You have the same respect for free speech that Stalin had in the Soviet Union and Castro had in Cuba.

You don't understand what free speech is. Free speech means the government can't criminalize what you say or your opinions. So the government can't levy any restrictions on your speech. But private companies can. So can universities. And having the freedom to speak your mind does NOT mean you are free from the repercussions of what you said.

Don't straw man me with bullshit when you don't know what the fuck you're talking about and when you don't know my actual position.

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02-02-2017, 03:19 PM
RE: Illiberal Left Shuts Down Free Speech with Violence (Again)
(02-02-2017 03:11 PM)BryanS Wrote:  
(02-02-2017 03:08 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Fuck off. The University has an obligation to guard it's students against such targeted harassment. What Milo did is unacceptable, and is not a matter of First Amendment protection or censorship. The problem isn't that Milo has speech that I disagree with, it's that he's a bully. If Milo were to ask the ACLU to defend him over his behavior in campus, they would tell him to 'fuck off' as well.



This is intolerable. His pride shows that it will happen again, and this is why he should not speak at universities. He can speak conservative views or liberal views, but when he calls out a member of the student body, puts a picture up on the screen for thousands to see, gives her full name, proudly misgenders her, calls her the most vulgar slur in his arsenal, mocks her appearance, shames people for being friends with her, states she might be attractive enough for him to put his dick up her ass, disturbs her attendance by making light of a little-known Title IX compliance case that had been scarcely heard of by most in the university, and then boasts with a proud “mission accomplished” when said student drops out of the university due to the ensuing bullying, he is interfering with the university’s job of protecting and enhancing the safe education of its students. He is not educating; he is bullying. And apparently they knew he would do it. And we know, based on his reaction, that he will probably do it again.

We cannot afford to have someone on our college campuses who wears a badge of honor for this behavior. Not because he has conservative views, but because it interferes with student education. This is not OK; it is not what the university is for.
The privacy of individual students has strong importance in such public speeches. And I’m not just saying that because I’m a liberal; if a liberal did anything close to that to a conservative far-righter, the same logic would remain: Is this bullying the student, or enhancing their education? I would never condone, under any circumstances, someone speaking at a university to proudly bully individual students out of its walls.

This is not rocket science. This is not a partisan issue. This is about the purpose of a university, which is education. Some spaces outside the university may have different purposes. When Milo is in his transphobic Catholic church down the street he can rant and rail against individual transgender people all he wants, so long as he is not using my tax money to do it. I may not like it, but that’s his right. But the purpose of the university is education, and if a speaker is keeping individual students from being effectively educated because of his outrageous, proud bullying of individual students he names, he’s in the way of that purpose.

There is no legal protection for whiny cry babies. So you ca go fuck off yourself right back.

There is the same free speech protection for everyone. This demonstrates that you don't know what you're talking about.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
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02-02-2017, 03:20 PM
RE: Illiberal Left Shuts Down Free Speech with Violence (Again)
(02-02-2017 03:11 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  
(02-02-2017 03:07 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  That isn't what he said or implied. The right to free speech doesn't mean a right to any and every venue to express your opinion. Nor does it protect you from dissent.

I am a dissenting opinion to Milo, so you can fuck off there, and he was invited to the venue so you can fuck off there too.

Why do you think you are the subject in my post? At what point did I ever say you were in agreement with Milo? Or are you just talking out of your ass here?

(you never showed me examples of your other straw men either)

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
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02-02-2017, 03:21 PM
RE: Illiberal Left Shuts Down Free Speech with Violence (Again)
(02-02-2017 03:16 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(02-02-2017 03:11 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  I am a dissenting opinion to Milo, so you can fuck off there, and he was invited to the venue so you can fuck off there too.

Right to free speech is simply that government will not take steps to muzzle anyone, no matter what stupid or dangerous shit they spout. As long as no one is arresting the fucker simply for saying things, his right to free speech is not being violated.

This is not hard.

Slavery is only illegal when the government does it....it's not hard.
Unreasonable searches and seizure's are only illegal when the government...it's not hard.
Stopping the Freedom of the Press in only illegal when the government does it....it's not hard.

Sorry, just trying to find another Constitutional right this applied to, don't mind me...

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02-02-2017, 03:22 PM
RE: Illiberal Left Shuts Down Free Speech with Violence (Again)
(02-02-2017 03:15 PM)BryanS Wrote:  
(02-02-2017 03:08 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Fuck off. The University has an obligation to guard it's students against such

You're the fucking asshole who decided to tell people to fuck off when you don't like what you hear. You are what is wrong with the left--you have no ability to have a reasoned debate. You don't believe in the free exchange of ideas. You have no respect for the art of persuasion or the use of logic to crush a loathsome ideology of your opponent.

Wants respect, but doesn't give respect. Consider Hypocrite?

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
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02-02-2017, 03:22 PM
RE: Illiberal Left Shuts Down Free Speech with Violence (Again)
(02-02-2017 03:21 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  
(02-02-2017 03:16 PM)morondog Wrote:  Right to free speech is simply that government will not take steps to muzzle anyone, no matter what stupid or dangerous shit they spout. As long as no one is arresting the fucker simply for saying things, his right to free speech is not being violated.

This is not hard.

Slavery is only illegal when the government does it....it's not hard.
Unreasonable searches and seizure's are only illegal when the government...it's not hard.
Stopping the Freedom of the Press in only illegal when the government does it....it's not hard.

Sorry, just trying to find another Constitutional right this applied to, don't mind me...

Freedom of speech being "shut down" is only illegal if done by the government.


It's not that hard. See your errors yet?

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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