Illiberal Left Shuts Down Free Speech with Violence (Again)
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02-02-2017, 10:01 AM
RE: Illiberal Left Shuts Down Free Speech with Violence (Again)
Agree with Kineo, violence is an understandable yet still unacceptable response to speech, no matter how repugnant or offensive it is.

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02-02-2017, 10:03 AM
RE: Illiberal Left Shuts Down Free Speech with Violence (Again)
I don't condone violence, but I do understand their anger. That's what I am saying.

So what do you think of Milo? Do you agree with anything he says?

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02-02-2017, 10:04 AM
RE: Illiberal Left Shuts Down Free Speech with Violence (Again)
(02-02-2017 10:00 AM)Dark Light Wrote:  
(02-02-2017 09:53 AM)kineo Wrote:  Also, to add, Milo and his ilk should not be exempt from their speech. But those that provide the platform ought to bear the weight of the pain he causes people when he speaks. Protests and boycotts are my preferred course of action. I think violence gives people like you an out from thinking critically about what these people have to say, so you can blame the entire left for their actions.

Who are 'people like me'? Why do you assume I have not or cannot employ critical thinking skills?

"Illiberal Left Shuts Down Free Speech with Violence (Again)"
^ a good indicator of your bias. Neoliberal?

People inciting violence (whether justified or not) against other people is NOT someone having their free speech violated. If the government stepped in and jailed people for saying what they wanted, that would be a free speech violation.

So, this isn't the "illberal left" shutting down anything. It isn't liberals doing it either. It is a group of assholes who got pissed off by another group of assholes doing shitty things.

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02-02-2017, 10:06 AM
RE: Illiberal Left Shuts Down Free Speech with Violence (Again)
Eighty years ago the world went to war to fight bigotry, hate and fascism. You might have read about it.

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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02-02-2017, 10:12 AM
RE: Illiberal Left Shuts Down Free Speech with Violence (Again)
Interesting how the "illiberals" that were involved in the fracas are being painted as leftists, when in fact they're acting in a fascist - right-wing - manner.

The entire purpose of Milo's act - and make no mistake, it is an act - is to provoke violence, thereby demonize his opponents. It's a well-worn tactic.
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02-02-2017, 10:13 AM
RE: Illiberal Left Shuts Down Free Speech with Violence (Again)
(02-02-2017 10:04 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(02-02-2017 10:00 AM)Dark Light Wrote:  Who are 'people like me'? Why do you assume I have not or cannot employ critical thinking skills?

"Illiberal Left Shuts Down Free Speech with Violence (Again)"
^ a good indicator of your bias. Neoliberal?

People inciting violence (whether justified or not) against other people is NOT someone having their free speech violated. If the government stepped in and jailed people for saying what they wanted, that would be a free speech violation.

So, this isn't the "illberal left" shutting down anything. It isn't liberals doing it either. It is a group of assholes who got pissed off by another group of assholes doing shitty things.

I specifically use "illiberal left" to distinguish them from what I'd call "real liberals", because I don't want to be mistaken for these fools when I call myself a liberal or a classical liberal. If you don't like the term "illiberal left" then choose your own label. The label isn't particularly important, it's that is meant by that label. I think we have a real disagreement on what free-speech is though. The government's job is to ensure we have the ability to speak freely. It doesn't matter who prevents us from speaking our mind, if the government has not protecting our right to speak freely in a public space, or in a private space which we have been welcomed to or own, then our rights have been violated. It the same reason that protesters sometimes get arrested for intimidation. You have the right to call me an asshole, but you don't have the right to throw rocks at me for speaking my mind.

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02-02-2017, 10:17 AM
RE: Illiberal Left Shuts Down Free Speech with Violence (Again)
(02-02-2017 10:06 AM)dancefortwo Wrote:  Eighty years ago the world went to war to fight bigotry, hate and fascism. You might have read about it.

Eighty years ago we went to war to defend ourselves against Japanese suicide-bombers and Nazi's who declared war on us. You might not have read about it. I did, however read the Bill of Rights.

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02-02-2017, 10:20 AM
RE: Illiberal Left Shuts Down Free Speech with Violence (Again)
(02-02-2017 09:34 AM)Dark Light Wrote:  ...
(as evidenced by my recent rating decline followed by my temporary? Exodus).
...

What did I miss?

Huh

(02-02-2017 10:06 AM)dancefortwo Wrote:  Eighty years ago the world went to war to fight bigotry, hate and fascism. You might have read about it.

Unless one interprets that as the post hoc rationalisation for disastrous military alliances.

Since then the world learned that the best way to secure peace was through non-isolationist communication and trade deals.

Let's hope that the new US administration understands the wisdom of the TP...

Oh!

Sadcryface

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02-02-2017, 10:20 AM
RE: Illiberal Left Shuts Down Free Speech with Violence (Again)
(02-02-2017 10:13 AM)Dark Light Wrote:  
(02-02-2017 10:04 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  "Illiberal Left Shuts Down Free Speech with Violence (Again)"
^ a good indicator of your bias. Neoliberal?

People inciting violence (whether justified or not) against other people is NOT someone having their free speech violated. If the government stepped in and jailed people for saying what they wanted, that would be a free speech violation.

So, this isn't the "illberal left" shutting down anything. It isn't liberals doing it either. It is a group of assholes who got pissed off by another group of assholes doing shitty things.

I specifically use "illiberal left" to distinguish them from what I'd call "real liberals", because I don't want to be mistaken for these fools when I call myself a liberal or a classical liberal. If you don't like the term "illiberal left" then choose your own label. The label isn't particularly important, it's that is meant by that label. I think we have a real disagreement on what free-speech is though. The government's job is to ensure we have the ability to speak freely. It doesn't matter who prevents us from speaking our mind, if the government has not protecting our right to speak freely in a public space, or in a private space which we have been welcomed to or own, then our rights have been violated. It the same reason that protesters sometimes get arrested for intimidation. You have the right to call me an asshole, but you don't have the right to throw rocks at me for speaking my mind.

And yet "throwing rocks at you for speaking your mind" isn't a violation of your right to free speech. Only the government can violate your right to free speech.

But you labeling the rioters and violent actors as members of the political "left" is just you being an asshole.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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02-02-2017, 10:23 AM
RE: Illiberal Left Shuts Down Free Speech with Violence (Again)
Berkeley has been protesting throughout the decades. In my day, we did sit-ins, just sat down for hours or days in front of someone's office as protest.

Nowadays there is so much conflict and division, it gives violent idiots ample opportunity to piggy back peaceful demonstrations and cause crap.

I wouldn't be surprised if these were even right wing nuts trying to discredit the protesters and draw attention to the speakers.

Not a bad way to advertise... Confused

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