Illiberal Left Shuts Down Free Speech with Violence (Again)
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03-02-2017, 01:29 PM
RE: Illiberal Left Shuts Down Free Speech with Violence (Again)
(03-02-2017 01:23 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(03-02-2017 01:12 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  It's pretty black and white. You ask me to "prove" you claimed it was a conspiracy theory. I tell you that that is MY characterization of YOUR claim that it was people on the right. Do you deny proposing it was right-wingers? If no, then there is your "proof". If "yes", do I need to provide more quotes of yours, or is your memory coming back to you?

Hold on, wait. So now you are saying that I didn't actually make these claims and that you are now saying that you have been simply using your "characterization" of what I have said?

And yes, I DO deny proposing that this was right-wingers who did the rioting. I am actively looking back through my posts to try and find the source of your claims.

There is this post from page 7 where I said:"Or the other obvious answer (as mentioned by others), people not affiliated with the protests in any way took advantage of an opportunity to be assholes and incite violence." in response to Dom's post where she said: "Fact is, you don't know and either way is possible. There is zero evidence - none of these hooded, disguised people were caught. Overall, the libs lose in this and the alts win.When facts are missing, I always try to look at the big pic to see who profits."

So that doesn't fit your narrative of me making these claims.

Then there was this post of mine on page 10 where I said: "Because there were no "Never Trump" people in the Republican Wing? Seriously? You know you can google this stuff, right? Moderates don't count any more? Or Libertarians who don't like Trump either? The only political opinions that exist in your world are right and left? And you still haven't told us how you KNOW they were on the left and anti-Trump and not that they were assholes taking advantage of the protests to be violent and that they weren't there to peacefully protest at all (and therefore aren't affiliated with either political end of the spectrum because they weren't there for political reasons)."

But that doesn't fit your narrative either

This post from page 11 where I said: "You also don't need to be a part of the group to show up and try and turn it violent either. Almost like the violent people may not have been...*gasp*...part of the protest and just showed up! Fucking crazy! That's what we have been saying ALL ALONG!"

But that doesn't fit your narrative either.

And then this post also from page 11 where I first ask you to back up the claims you assert I made about this being a conspiracy or "false flag" or whatever, where I said: "Show me where I claimed that they were:
1) alt-right infiltrators
2) Alex Jones style "false flag" BS

edit to add: What I (and others) am saying is that there is 0 evidence to show what the political affiliation is of any of the rioters. You assume they are "illiberal leftists" but there is nothing to support that. Meaning these people may have been nothing more than assholes who showed up to take advantage of the situation. And since even you agree that the actions of the minority don't represent the entirety of a given political opinion, it is fallacious to call them "left" anything. You did that just to generate conflict. Not to be "cordial" or "civil""


So that doesn't fit your narrative either. There it is, every post I made early in the thread leading up to and going past your first false accusation of me asserting that I said that this was some sort of "false flag" or Alex Jones style bs or that the rioters were secretly right-wingers.




So, go on, show me the evidence to back up your claims because I sure as shit can't find it. Drinking Beverage

Are you seriously insinuating that Republicans are not the right wing now? Thanks for doing the work for me though...

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03-02-2017, 01:33 PM
RE: Illiberal Left Shuts Down Free Speech with Violence (Again)
(03-02-2017 01:29 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  
(03-02-2017 01:23 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Hold on, wait. So now you are saying that I didn't actually make these claims and that you are now saying that you have been simply using your "characterization" of what I have said?

And yes, I DO deny proposing that this was right-wingers who did the rioting. I am actively looking back through my posts to try and find the source of your claims.

There is this post from page 7 where I said:"Or the other obvious answer (as mentioned by others), people not affiliated with the protests in any way took advantage of an opportunity to be assholes and incite violence." in response to Dom's post where she said: "Fact is, you don't know and either way is possible. There is zero evidence - none of these hooded, disguised people were caught. Overall, the libs lose in this and the alts win.When facts are missing, I always try to look at the big pic to see who profits."

So that doesn't fit your narrative of me making these claims.

Then there was this post of mine on page 10 where I said: "Because there were no "Never Trump" people in the Republican Wing? Seriously? You know you can google this stuff, right? Moderates don't count any more? Or Libertarians who don't like Trump either? The only political opinions that exist in your world are right and left? And you still haven't told us how you KNOW they were on the left and anti-Trump and not that they were assholes taking advantage of the protests to be violent and that they weren't there to peacefully protest at all (and therefore aren't affiliated with either political end of the spectrum because they weren't there for political reasons)."

But that doesn't fit your narrative either

This post from page 11 where I said: "You also don't need to be a part of the group to show up and try and turn it violent either. Almost like the violent people may not have been...*gasp*...part of the protest and just showed up! Fucking crazy! That's what we have been saying ALL ALONG!"

But that doesn't fit your narrative either.

And then this post also from page 11 where I first ask you to back up the claims you assert I made about this being a conspiracy or "false flag" or whatever, where I said: "Show me where I claimed that they were:
1) alt-right infiltrators
2) Alex Jones style "false flag" BS

edit to add: What I (and others) am saying is that there is 0 evidence to show what the political affiliation is of any of the rioters. You assume they are "illiberal leftists" but there is nothing to support that. Meaning these people may have been nothing more than assholes who showed up to take advantage of the situation. And since even you agree that the actions of the minority don't represent the entirety of a given political opinion, it is fallacious to call them "left" anything. You did that just to generate conflict. Not to be "cordial" or "civil""


So that doesn't fit your narrative either. There it is, every post I made early in the thread leading up to and going past your first false accusation of me asserting that I said that this was some sort of "false flag" or Alex Jones style bs or that the rioters were secretly right-wingers.




So, go on, show me the evidence to back up your claims because I sure as shit can't find it. Drinking Beverage

Are you seriously insinuating that Republicans are not the right wing now? Thanks for doing the work for me though...

What the hell are you talking about? Where did this new claim come from implying that I said anything that would indicate that Republicans aren't on the political right?

Are you mentally ill? Is there anyone else out there who can corroborate what DL is claiming? Because either I am not saying these things, or I am unconsciously saying these things. I can't see these words or insinuations in my writing at all.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
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03-02-2017, 01:33 PM
RE: Illiberal Left Shuts Down Free Speech with Violence (Again)
(03-02-2017 01:29 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  
(03-02-2017 01:23 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Hold on, wait. So now you are saying that I didn't actually make these claims and that you are now saying that you have been simply using your "characterization" of what I have said?

And yes, I DO deny proposing that this was right-wingers who did the rioting. I am actively looking back through my posts to try and find the source of your claims.

There is this post from page 7 where I said:"Or the other obvious answer (as mentioned by others), people not affiliated with the protests in any way took advantage of an opportunity to be assholes and incite violence." in response to Dom's post where she said: "Fact is, you don't know and either way is possible. There is zero evidence - none of these hooded, disguised people were caught. Overall, the libs lose in this and the alts win.When facts are missing, I always try to look at the big pic to see who profits."

So that doesn't fit your narrative of me making these claims.

Then there was this post of mine on page 10 where I said: "Because there were no "Never Trump" people in the Republican Wing? Seriously? You know you can google this stuff, right? Moderates don't count any more? Or Libertarians who don't like Trump either? The only political opinions that exist in your world are right and left? And you still haven't told us how you KNOW they were on the left and anti-Trump and not that they were assholes taking advantage of the protests to be violent and that they weren't there to peacefully protest at all (and therefore aren't affiliated with either political end of the spectrum because they weren't there for political reasons)."

But that doesn't fit your narrative either

This post from page 11 where I said: "You also don't need to be a part of the group to show up and try and turn it violent either. Almost like the violent people may not have been...*gasp*...part of the protest and just showed up! Fucking crazy! That's what we have been saying ALL ALONG!"

But that doesn't fit your narrative either.

And then this post also from page 11 where I first ask you to back up the claims you assert I made about this being a conspiracy or "false flag" or whatever, where I said: "Show me where I claimed that they were:
1) alt-right infiltrators
2) Alex Jones style "false flag" BS

edit to add: What I (and others) am saying is that there is 0 evidence to show what the political affiliation is of any of the rioters. You assume they are "illiberal leftists" but there is nothing to support that. Meaning these people may have been nothing more than assholes who showed up to take advantage of the situation. And since even you agree that the actions of the minority don't represent the entirety of a given political opinion, it is fallacious to call them "left" anything. You did that just to generate conflict. Not to be "cordial" or "civil""


So that doesn't fit your narrative either. There it is, every post I made early in the thread leading up to and going past your first false accusation of me asserting that I said that this was some sort of "false flag" or Alex Jones style bs or that the rioters were secretly right-wingers.




So, go on, show me the evidence to back up your claims because I sure as shit can't find it. Drinking Beverage

Are you seriously insinuating that Republicans are not the right wing now? Thanks for doing the work for me though...

"Thanks for doing the work for me though..."

You are very welcome. Proving you wrong was worth it Thumbsup

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
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03-02-2017, 01:36 PM
RE: Illiberal Left Shuts Down Free Speech with Violence (Again)
(03-02-2017 12:24 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  I agree that Milo is deliberately a troll and intentionally cruel to audience members, but I disagree that he should not be invited. I think the key would be to have a "counterpoint" speaker follow him, who can meticulously pick apart every point he makes, or else only agree to host him in a debate-type format.

Ordinarily, I would agree with you, but not with Milo. What makes him different is the singling people out and bullying of the type that Emma posted earlier. If Milo is allowed to do that, it won't matter who follows with counterpoints. The damage to those individuals would already be done and could be very serious. Transgender people, for example, who are outed in this manner could literally commit suicide over it. I think this type of thing puts Milo in a separate class of people who should not be given a forum at universities.

@DonaldTrump, Patriotism is not honoring your flag no matter what your country/leader does. It's doing whatever it takes to make your country the best it can be as long as its not violent.
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03-02-2017, 01:43 PM
RE: Illiberal Left Shuts Down Free Speech with Violence (Again)
(03-02-2017 01:33 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(03-02-2017 01:29 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  Are you seriously insinuating that Republicans are not the right wing now? Thanks for doing the work for me though...

What the hell are you talking about? Where did this new claim come from implying that I said anything that would indicate that Republicans aren't on the political right?

Are you mentally ill? Is there anyone else out there who can corroborate what DL is claiming? Because either I am not saying these things, or I am unconsciously saying these things. I can't see these words or insinuations in my writing at all.

I could explain it, but it would be hard to follow, and I doubt you'll be honest about your understanding of what I say so...fuck it, here we go.

You claim it could be Republicans who rioted. Yes or no?

I claim that you claimed it was Right-Wingers who did it.

You claim, no, you didn't say right wingers, you said Republicans. Yes or no?

The logical conclusion is that you either don't think that Republicans are right-wingers, or you refute claiming it could've be Republicans (which you've quoted yourself as saying)

"Because there were no "Never Trump" people in the Republican Wing? Seriously?"
Right-Winger either is or is not Republican

For context:
"You know you can google this stuff, right? Moderates don't count any more? Or Libertarians who don't like Trump either? The only political opinions that exist in your world are right and left? And you still haven't told us how you KNOW they were on the left and anti-Trump and not that they were assholes taking advantage of the protests to be violent and that they weren't there to peacefully protest at all"

"(and therefore aren't affiliated with either political end of the spectrum because they weren't there for political reasons)."

Your claim that they could've been there for apolitical reasons, in plain English.

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03-02-2017, 01:50 PM
RE: Illiberal Left Shuts Down Free Speech with Violence (Again)
(03-02-2017 01:43 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  
(03-02-2017 01:33 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  What the hell are you talking about? Where did this new claim come from implying that I said anything that would indicate that Republicans aren't on the political right?

Are you mentally ill? Is there anyone else out there who can corroborate what DL is claiming? Because either I am not saying these things, or I am unconsciously saying these things. I can't see these words or insinuations in my writing at all.

I could explain it, but it would be hard to follow, and I doubt you'll be honest about your understanding of what I say so...fuck it, here we go.

You claim it could be Republicans who rioted. Yes or no?

I claim that you claimed it was Right-Wingers who did it.

You claim, no, you didn't say right wingers, you said Republicans. Yes or no?

The logical conclusion is that you either don't think that Republicans are right-wingers, or you refute claiming it could've be Republicans (which you've quoted yourself as saying)

"Because there were no "Never Trump" people in the Republican Wing? Seriously?"
Right-Winger either is or is not Republican

For context:
"You know you can google this stuff, right? Moderates don't count any more? Or Libertarians who don't like Trump either? The only political opinions that exist in your world are right and left? And you still haven't told us how you KNOW they were on the left and anti-Trump and not that they were assholes taking advantage of the protests to be violent and that they weren't there to peacefully protest at all"

"(and therefore aren't affiliated with either political end of the spectrum because they weren't there for political reasons)."

Your claim that they could've been there for apolitical reasons, in plain English.

"You claim it could be Republicans who rioted. Yes or no?"

No. Never claimed that. You claimed I did and I asked for you to show me these claims.

"I claim that you claimed it was Right-Wingers who did it.

I know you claimed this, and it is a straw man (as I have pointed out before).

"You claim, no, you didn't say right wingers, you said Republicans. Yes or no?"

I didn't claim it was right-wingers or republicans who rioted. These are both YOUR claims of what I didn't actually say or claim.

"The logical conclusion is that you either don't think that Republicans are right-wingers, or you refute claiming it could've be Republicans (which you've quoted yourself as saying)"

The logical conclusion is that you didn't read a damn thing I wrote. For instance, when did I quote myself saying it was republicans doing the violent rioting?

"Your claim that they could've been there for apolitical reasons, in plain English."

Not once have I denied that I find it more likely that these riots are more apolitical than anything else. That has been my belief all along. YOU claim (continuously) that I have said it was right-wingers or republicans or Alex Jones style "false flag" conspiracy.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
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03-02-2017, 02:01 PM
RE: Illiberal Left Shuts Down Free Speech with Violence (Again)
And in response to Dom's claim that it was likelyright-wingers because they stood to benefit from the rioters, what insinuation was meant by this quote of yours?

"Because there were no "Never Trump" people in the Republican Wing? Seriously?"

Let's hear it.

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03-02-2017, 02:13 PM
RE: Illiberal Left Shuts Down Free Speech with Violence (Again)
(03-02-2017 02:01 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  And in response to Dom's claim that it was likelyright-wingers because they stood to benefit from the rioters, what insinuation was meant by this quote of yours?

"Because there were no "Never Trump" people in the Republican Wing? Seriously?"

Let's hear it.

Do what?

Holy fuck, do you not understand context? Even out of context this cherry-picked quote from me doesn't substantiate your claims.

Here is what you said in response to a preceding post by Dom: "We know they were anti-Trump. If Trump is on the authoritarian side (I say he is) then where else is there room for them? Either you claim a false-flag operation, or you admit they are on the left. There is nowhere else to go."

Then I responded with this: "Because only liberals are anti-Trump? Because the only option is that they rioted for purely political reasons and not that a minority of assholes took advantage of a situation to wreak havoc and it wasn't about politics? How do you KNOW these people who incited violence are on the left? FALSE DICHOTOMY. "I can't conceive of a logical way these people are on the right, SO THEY MUST BE ON THE LEFT!!!!""

The entire point of this reply was to point out the error in YOUR logic, not that I was claiming it was a republican/right-wing conspiracy. Which is why I followed up with: "Because there were no "Never Trump" people in the Republican Wing? Seriously? You know you can google this stuff, right? Moderates don't count any more? Or Libertarians who don't like Trump either? The only political opinions that exist in your world are right and left? And you still haven't told us how you KNOW they were on the left and anti-Trump and not that they were assholes taking advantage of the protests to be violent and that they weren't there to peacefully protest at all (and therefore aren't affiliated with either political end of the spectrum because they weren't there for political reasons)"

Do you think that the above quote (now in its entirety instead of the cherry-picked version you selected from it) is also me saying it was a Libertarian conspiracy too? Or is the point I am making that YOUR assumptions about how people occupy political space, is incorrect?



Hint: it's the second thing

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03-02-2017, 02:15 PM
RE: Illiberal Left Shuts Down Free Speech with Violence (Again)
(03-02-2017 02:13 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(03-02-2017 02:01 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  And in response to Dom's claim that it was likelyright-wingers because they stood to benefit from the rioters, what insinuation was meant by this quote of yours?

"Because there were no "Never Trump" people in the Republican Wing? Seriously?"

Let's hear it.

Do what?

Holy fuck, do you not understand context? Even out of context this cherry-picked quote from me doesn't substantiate your claims.

Here is what you said in response to a preceding post by Dom: "We know they were anti-Trump. If Trump is on the authoritarian side (I say he is) then where else is there room for them? Either you claim a false-flag operation, or you admit they are on the left. There is nowhere else to go."

Then I responded with this: "Because only liberals are anti-Trump? Because the only option is that they rioted for purely political reasons and not that a minority of assholes took advantage of a situation to wreak havoc and it wasn't about politics? How do you KNOW these people who incited violence are on the left? FALSE DICHOTOMY. "I can't conceive of a logical way these people are on the right, SO THEY MUST BE ON THE LEFT!!!!""

The entire point of this reply was to point out the error in YOUR logic, not that I was claiming it was a republican/right-wing conspiracy. Which is why I followed up with: "Because there were no "Never Trump" people in the Republican Wing? Seriously? You know you can google this stuff, right? Moderates don't count any more? Or Libertarians who don't like Trump either? The only political opinions that exist in your world are right and left? And you still haven't told us how you KNOW they were on the left and anti-Trump and not that they were assholes taking advantage of the protests to be violent and that they weren't there to peacefully protest at all (and therefore aren't affiliated with either political end of the spectrum because they weren't there for political reasons)"

Do you think that the above quote (now in its entirety instead of the cherry-picked version you selected from it) is also me saying it was a Libertarian conspiracy too? Or is the point I am making that YOUR assumptions about how people occupy political space, is incorrect?



Hint: its the second thing

I actually posted in context and specifically said I was providing some context, then you removed that bit when you replied....so there is that...

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03-02-2017, 02:20 PM
RE: Illiberal Left Shuts Down Free Speech with Violence (Again)
(03-02-2017 02:15 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  
(03-02-2017 02:13 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Do what?

Holy fuck, do you not understand context? Even out of context this cherry-picked quote from me doesn't substantiate your claims.

Here is what you said in response to a preceding post by Dom: "We know they were anti-Trump. If Trump is on the authoritarian side (I say he is) then where else is there room for them? Either you claim a false-flag operation, or you admit they are on the left. There is nowhere else to go."

Then I responded with this: "Because only liberals are anti-Trump? Because the only option is that they rioted for purely political reasons and not that a minority of assholes took advantage of a situation to wreak havoc and it wasn't about politics? How do you KNOW these people who incited violence are on the left? FALSE DICHOTOMY. "I can't conceive of a logical way these people are on the right, SO THEY MUST BE ON THE LEFT!!!!""

The entire point of this reply was to point out the error in YOUR logic, not that I was claiming it was a republican/right-wing conspiracy. Which is why I followed up with: "Because there were no "Never Trump" people in the Republican Wing? Seriously? You know you can google this stuff, right? Moderates don't count any more? Or Libertarians who don't like Trump either? The only political opinions that exist in your world are right and left? And you still haven't told us how you KNOW they were on the left and anti-Trump and not that they were assholes taking advantage of the protests to be violent and that they weren't there to peacefully protest at all (and therefore aren't affiliated with either political end of the spectrum because they weren't there for political reasons)"

Do you think that the above quote (now in its entirety instead of the cherry-picked version you selected from it) is also me saying it was a Libertarian conspiracy too? Or is the point I am making that YOUR assumptions about how people occupy political space, is incorrect?



Hint: its the second thing

I actually posted in context and specifically said I was providing some context, then you removed that bit when you replied....so there is that...

No, you incorrectly assigned my comment about "Never Trumpers" to a conspiracy that the rioters were on the right end of the political spectrum, when that comment was STILL addressing your assertion that the rioters supposedly being anti-Trump means that they must be on the political left. Corroborated by your post: "We know they were anti-Trump. If Trump is on the authoritarian side (I say he is) then where else is there room for them? Either you claim a false-flag operation, or you admit they are on the left. There is nowhere else to go."" That is why the full context of my comment requires not only what Dom said, but what YOU said prior to it.

Cherry-picking bullshit to back up your bullshit claims isn't making your case any better. You accuse me of dishonesty, but these blatantly dishonest tactics aren't getting you anywhere. Why can't you just admit you're wrong and that I didn't claim what you claim I did? Too fragile an ego? Consider

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