Illiberal Left Shuts Down Free Speech with Violence (Again)
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12-02-2017, 12:34 PM
RE: Illiberal Left Shuts Down Free Speech with Violence (Again)
(12-02-2017 12:06 PM)abaris Wrote:  
(12-02-2017 11:46 AM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  Trump got their endorsement for different reasons, the rhetoric he used, and the people he surrounded himself with made it obvious to the (alt-white) groups he was on their side.

Which was exactly my point. There's only two options. Either he is too stupid to even notice whom his rhetoric appealed to, or he did it on purpose. I don't know what's actually worse, since in both cases he obviously feels the vibe and found his brethren in spirit.

It might well be that Reagan appealed to portions of them too, but not sufficiently to get an open endorsment. Also I can't remember the neonazis - oh, excuse me - the alt.right holding rallys with shouts of Hail Reagan, Hail Victory (Sieg Heil), complete with right arm salutes.

On a side note, how thick does one have to be to actually endorse what their forefathers fought against. It's even worse with Russian nazis. Their country was actually ravaged by the madness some 70 years ago.

This was also before the internet. There were rally's that supported Reagan, but the media didn't blow up over it. There wasn't a YouTube, and even video recorders weren't huge yet. If the media didn't know or care, it flew under their radar.

Also in the late 70s there was a lot of crap still fresh in people's minds that happened a decade earlier and was still happening throughout the 70s. Everyone was tired and I think the idea was to pretend groups like the kkk no longer were around or carried influence.

Trump rise, I believe, is a result of buried prejudice and his open and popular rhetoric emboldened groups, like neo nazis and kkk. They've been waiting for this since the 60s. These groups have also taken advantage of social media -- which spreads their ideas to new people. It also has shown glaringly so, these group's while flying under the radar of the average American have been incredibly active.

Also had the kkk publicly endorsed Reagon, considering the political atmosphere of the late 70s, Reagan likely wouldn't have just smiled and ignored it, but actually shot it down quickly and rejected it.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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12-02-2017, 12:46 PM
RE: Illiberal Left Shuts Down Free Speech with Violence (Again)
(12-02-2017 12:34 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  Also had the kkk publicly endorsed Reagon, considering the political atmosphere of the late 70s, Reagan likely wouldn't have just smiled and ignored it, but actually shot it down quickly and rejected it.

Which is another point I'd like to make. He wouldn't have taken it in stride. I was in my last - equivalent of our - highschool year when he won. I didn't like him, but I never would compare him to this abomination. In fact I would think, he wouldn't stand a chance these days, running on a republican ticket. They wouldn't even nominate him for dog catcher. Much too bleeding heart liberal.
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12-02-2017, 12:47 PM
RE: Illiberal Left Shuts Down Free Speech with Violence (Again)
(12-02-2017 12:34 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  These groups have also taken advantage of social media -- which spreads their ideas to new people.

No doubt about it. They now have a far-reaching platform for to espouse their ideas and hatred.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
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12-02-2017, 01:04 PM
RE: Illiberal Left Shuts Down Free Speech with Violence (Again)
(12-02-2017 12:47 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  
(12-02-2017 12:34 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  These groups have also taken advantage of social media -- which spreads their ideas to new people.

No doubt about it. They now have a far-reaching platform for to espouse their ideas and hatred.

The internet has been great for many things, unfortunately the pervasive nature of terrible ideas also has been given a place to flourish. I think it has also skewed the thinking of many people, who get into the idea of the echo chamber. I've more recently seen people who are probably just a little tired of feeling pushed aside become emboldened to believe certain groups don't espouse hatred.

If a lie is repeated too often it becomes a truth but only if no one calls out the lie for what it is. That's the problem with the echo chamber, no one inside it calls out the lie and outside that anyone who tries is demonized. Brietbart does this, they remove reasonable sounding liberal comments but leave the whacky ones. They control the narrative this way that all liberals are crazy.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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12-02-2017, 01:15 PM
RE: Illiberal Left Shuts Down Free Speech with Violence (Again)
(12-02-2017 01:04 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  If a lie is repeated too often it becomes a truth but only if no one calls out the lie for what it is. That's the problem with the echo chamber, no one inside it calls out the lie and outside that anyone who tries is demonized. Brietbart does this, they remove reasonable sounding liberal comments but leave the whacky ones. They control the narrative this way that all liberals are crazy.

It's also the business model of Social Media. They collect as much data as possible and to hook you, they provide you with what they think interests you. So everyone on Facebook or Twitter are living in a bubble. Of course you could look for other news, but hardly anyone does that. The echo chamber is sufficient for them, and one of the reasons why 51 percent of Trump supporters think the Bowling Green massacre actually happened.
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12-02-2017, 01:28 PM
RE: Illiberal Left Shuts Down Free Speech with Violence (Again)
(12-02-2017 01:15 PM)abaris Wrote:  ...
and one of the reasons why 51 percent of Trump supporters think the Bowling Green massacre actually happened.

That's nothing!

85% of Murikans think Jesus actually happened.

Rolleyes

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12-02-2017, 03:04 PM
RE: Illiberal Left Shuts Down Free Speech with Violence (Again)
(12-02-2017 01:19 AM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  It's funny you say MSNBC represents "the Left", as I am a leftie and I don't watch MSNBC because they represent Corporate Democrats (Hillary's NeoLiberals), the sell-outs to moneyed interests, and serve as a propaganda arm for that group... a group that I, as an actual Liberal, stand against in almost every way. That's why I referenced Kulinski's dressing-down of Maddow.

And that's why I say America's political perspective is so Right-skewed that anything in the center now looks leftist. We no longer have an effective "left-wing" source for anything, except a few websites and small self-made media groups (which apparently don't count, since Breitbart doesn't, even when it's literally in the White House directly advising the President), and I find it almost comic that anyone thinks groups like MSNBC serve "the Left". They serve the business propaganda model they think can milk and manipulate people for profit. Period.

Are you suggesting MSNBC serves "the right"? If you want to say that Democrats are "the right" I think we are running into the problem I alluded to before. There is, by my reckoning, using the standard political compass, a left-wing illiberal group, and a left wing liberal group. As well as a right-wing illiberal group, as well as as a right wing liberal group. I think we probably agree with each other on most things except definitions for labels, which, I said, has less and less meaning as time goes on. I think you and I are in the same boat.

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12-02-2017, 03:10 PM
RE: Illiberal Left Shuts Down Free Speech with Violence (Again)
(12-02-2017 03:04 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  
(12-02-2017 01:19 AM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  It's funny you say MSNBC represents "the Left", as I am a leftie and I don't watch MSNBC because they represent Corporate Democrats (Hillary's NeoLiberals), the sell-outs to moneyed interests, and serve as a propaganda arm for that group... a group that I, as an actual Liberal, stand against in almost every way. That's why I referenced Kulinski's dressing-down of Maddow.

And that's why I say America's political perspective is so Right-skewed that anything in the center now looks leftist. We no longer have an effective "left-wing" source for anything, except a few websites and small self-made media groups (which apparently don't count, since Breitbart doesn't, even when it's literally in the White House directly advising the President), and I find it almost comic that anyone thinks groups like MSNBC serve "the Left". They serve the business propaganda model they think can milk and manipulate people for profit. Period.

Are you suggesting MSNBC serves "the right"? If you want to say that Democrats are "the right" I think we are running into the problem I alluded to before. There is, by my reckoning, using the standard political compass, a left-wing illiberal group, and a left wing liberal group. As well as a right-wing illiberal group, as well as as a right wing liberal group. I think we probably agree with each other on most things except definitions for labels, which, I said, has less and less meaning as time goes on. I think you and I are in the same boat.
Well a problem is some people think the American landscape means you must say x party is left and x party is right.

Which is an arbitrary dividing poltical point. If you cared for actual political concepts between the value differences of caring for care, harm, or tradition, sanctity types of policy focus divisions.

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12-02-2017, 03:11 PM
RE: Illiberal Left Shuts Down Free Speech with Violence (Again)
(02-02-2017 09:51 AM)Emma Wrote:  I understand the violent reactions to people like Milo and Spencer. I don't condone it. It's not an acceptable reaction in our nation. But I get it. These two examples of people are the same people that incite violence against others every day. Milo uses his troll army to harass others via social media, and it easily leads to physical harm of the target. Milo has done very real damage to peoples' lives. He skirts the blame because he doesn't commit violence himself. Instead, his followers do the work of harassing and shaming and attacking, Milo just calls out the targets. Angry

What violence does Milo incite? Are you equating mean words on Twitter to actual violence?

"I think part of the appeal of mathematical logic is that the formulas look mysterious - you write backward Es!" - Hilary Putnam
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12-02-2017, 03:30 PM
RE: Illiberal Left Shuts Down Free Speech with Violence (Again)
(12-02-2017 03:11 PM)Naielis Wrote:  
(02-02-2017 09:51 AM)Emma Wrote:  I understand the violent reactions to people like Milo and Spencer. I don't condone it. It's not an acceptable reaction in our nation. But I get it. These two examples of people are the same people that incite violence against others every day. Milo uses his troll army to harass others via social media, and it easily leads to physical harm of the target. Milo has done very real damage to peoples' lives. He skirts the blame because he doesn't commit violence himself. Instead, his followers do the work of harassing and shaming and attacking, Milo just calls out the targets. Angry

What violence does Milo incite? Are you equating mean words on Twitter to actual violence?

He makes people want to punch him in the face. Isn't that what inciting means?




#sigh
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