Illiberal Left Shuts Down Free Speech with Violence (Again)
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12-02-2017, 03:34 PM
RE: Illiberal Left Shuts Down Free Speech with Violence (Again)
(12-02-2017 03:30 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  He makes people want to punch him in the face. Isn't that what inciting means?

It's highly uncivilized and frowned upon to indulge yourself so shamelessly. Also you could hurt your knuckles.
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13-02-2017, 04:38 AM
RE: Illiberal Left Shuts Down Free Speech with Violence (Again)
(12-02-2017 03:04 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  
(12-02-2017 01:19 AM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  It's funny you say MSNBC represents "the Left", as I am a leftie and I don't watch MSNBC because they represent Corporate Democrats (Hillary's NeoLiberals), the sell-outs to moneyed interests, and serve as a propaganda arm for that group... a group that I, as an actual Liberal, stand against in almost every way. That's why I referenced Kulinski's dressing-down of Maddow.

And that's why I say America's political perspective is so Right-skewed that anything in the center now looks leftist. We no longer have an effective "left-wing" source for anything, except a few websites and small self-made media groups (which apparently don't count, since Breitbart doesn't, even when it's literally in the White House directly advising the President), and I find it almost comic that anyone thinks groups like MSNBC serve "the Left". They serve the business propaganda model they think can milk and manipulate people for profit. Period.

Are you suggesting MSNBC serves "the right"? If you want to say that Democrats are "the right" I think we are running into the problem I alluded to before. There is, by my reckoning, using the standard political compass, a left-wing illiberal group, and a left wing liberal group. As well as a right-wing illiberal group, as well as as a right wing liberal group. I think we probably agree with each other on most things except definitions for labels, which, I said, has less and less meaning as time goes on. I think you and I are in the same boat.

1) No I in no way suggested MSNBC serves "the right". I said they serve corporate interests, the major one of which is profit. I said that they have staked out a market in supporting Neo-Liberals, who do not represent the left (but who do support the Military-Industrial Complex, the Prison-IC, and most other corporate priorities), and that the Hillary Democrats would be called center-right in pretty much any other country on the planet except the USA.

2) You have GOT to start realizing what Breitbart has become, and stop dismissing them as an irrelevant thing. Regardez:





PLEASE don't write him off as some "leftist crank". His comedy is a way of pointing out things that are otherwise too painful to face... but listen to the points he has making in this video, and what he says about the influences of Fox and Breitbart on Trump's vision of the world, his entire sense of reality, and therefore why he makes what decisions he does.

This will be 25 minutes of your life well-spent. And I think we'll be on the same page once you see what I'm so worried about.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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13-02-2017, 09:57 AM (This post was last modified: 13-02-2017 10:05 AM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Illiberal Left Shuts Down Free Speech with Violence (Again)
(12-02-2017 03:34 PM)abaris Wrote:  Also you could hurt your knuckles.

Hit with your index and fuck you knuckles. Your third and fourth fingers will break, Tuck your thumb under your fingers and it will break. Keep your wrist straight and tight or it will break.

[Image: f1_zpsgg03weyj.jpg][Image: f2_zpsdvsssucg.jpg][Image: f3_zpsuotl3lew.jpg]

If you really want to make sure you don't hurt your knuckles wear some protection.

[Image: brass_zpsqgoumdyc.jpg]

Happy illiberal rioting. Thumbsup

#sigh
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13-02-2017, 11:45 AM
RE: Illiberal Left Shuts Down Free Speech with Violence (Again)
(13-02-2017 04:38 AM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  
(12-02-2017 03:04 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  Are you suggesting MSNBC serves "the right"? If you want to say that Democrats are "the right" I think we are running into the problem I alluded to before. There is, by my reckoning, using the standard political compass, a left-wing illiberal group, and a left wing liberal group. As well as a right-wing illiberal group, as well as as a right wing liberal group. I think we probably agree with each other on most things except definitions for labels, which, I said, has less and less meaning as time goes on. I think you and I are in the same boat.

1) No I in no way suggested MSNBC serves "the right". I said they serve corporate interests, the major one of which is profit. I said that they have staked out a market in supporting Neo-Liberals, who do not represent the left (but who do support the Military-Industrial Complex, the Prison-IC, and most other corporate priorities), and that the Hillary Democrats would be called center-right in pretty much any other country on the planet except the USA.

2) You have GOT to start realizing what Breitbart has become, and stop dismissing them as an irrelevant thing. Regardez:





PLEASE don't write him off as some "leftist crank". His comedy is a way of pointing out things that are otherwise too painful to face... but listen to the points he has making in this video, and what he says about the influences of Fox and Breitbart on Trump's vision of the world, his entire sense of reality, and therefore why he makes what decisions he does.

This will be 25 minutes of your life well-spent. And I think we'll be on the same page once you see what I'm so worried about.

I have a huge man-crush for John Oliver. I am so glad he is back

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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13-02-2017, 12:52 PM (This post was last modified: 13-02-2017 01:03 PM by Dark Light.)
RE: Illiberal Left Shuts Down Free Speech with Violence (Again)
(13-02-2017 04:38 AM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  
(12-02-2017 03:04 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  Are you suggesting MSNBC serves "the right"? If you want to say that Democrats are "the right" I think we are running into the problem I alluded to before. There is, by my reckoning, using the standard political compass, a left-wing illiberal group, and a left wing liberal group. As well as a right-wing illiberal group, as well as as a right wing liberal group. I think we probably agree with each other on most things except definitions for labels, which, I said, has less and less meaning as time goes on. I think you and I are in the same boat.

1) No I in no way suggested MSNBC serves "the right". I said they serve corporate interests, the major one of which is profit. I said that they have staked out a market in supporting Neo-Liberals, who do not represent the left (but who do support the Military-Industrial Complex, the Prison-IC, and most other corporate priorities), and that the Hillary Democrats would be called center-right in pretty much any other country on the planet except the USA.

2) You have GOT to start realizing what Breitbart has become, and stop dismissing them as an irrelevant thing. Regardez:





PLEASE don't write him off as some "leftist crank". His comedy is a way of pointing out things that are otherwise too painful to face... but listen to the points he has making in this video, and what he says about the influences of Fox and Breitbart on Trump's vision of the world, his entire sense of reality, and therefore why he makes what decisions he does.

This will be 25 minutes of your life well-spent. And I think we'll be on the same page once you see what I'm so worried about.

I really think we're talking past each other. You define neo-liberal as non-left and non-right, which I find confusing already, but even if I understood that, we would have to define neo-liberal, because I think John Oliver could be considered neo-liberal, or Progressive; terms I'd never identify with unless they changed meaning.
Sorry, don't have the 25 minutes to dedicate to watching the video a the moment, however I generally find that John Oliver and his ilk, while sometimes funny, too often mask agenda-driven over-sensationalization as truth. I used to like that kind of stuff when I was a teenager, but as I've gotten older I don't care for it. I'd rather listen/watch something more serious, and less "gotcha, the other guy is a fool" type of thing. Those shows are too narrative-driven, and I strongly suspect that they often edit interviews and things dishonestly for political reasons, and for laughs, but present it as if they are always reasonable and anyone else is the fool. I'm not saying shows ran by Oliver, Stewart, Colbert, and Noah refuse to criticize people in their progressive/Democrat camp, it's usually not done in way that would hurt them politically unless they are pushing another alternative in their camp (Such as Clinton vs. Sanders). Anyhow, that's my take on it, hopefully we have found some clarity, if not agreement. I will try to get around to watching that clip this weekend if I can get some time off of work. Cheers.

edit: Realized I forgot to address your comments on Breitbart/alternative media/power.

I am distinguishing betwixt real news media that actually employ journalists as oppose to those that just employ writers to twist stories real journalists have covered into a political-driven, twisted, and barely recognizable dumpster-fire.

Example below:

Journalist: Danish cartoonist has life threatened for portraying Muhammad

Propaganda Machine: Extreme White Nationalist uses islamophobic hate speech despite cry for tolerance from oppressed minority group

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13-02-2017, 01:40 PM
RE: Illiberal Left Shuts Down Free Speech with Violence (Again)
(10-02-2017 03:21 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  
(10-02-2017 02:30 PM)Emma Wrote:  Come on- there's a clear distinction between the liberal-leaning coverage of MSNBC or CNN vs the conservative-raging Fox News Channel. Breitbart is a flat out lying propaganda machine for the right, and don't even count. You can't quite say the same about say- HuffPo, but you can expect more liberal-friendly coverage there.

But if you want to talk about how CNN fails us vs how FNC fails us, you're going to be looking at two very different and unrelated problems. FNC has no trouble spreading outright falsehoods- or at least letting a right-wing spokesperson say something flat-out false and going without a challenge.

CNN in more recent-ish history tends to to simply try to give equal coverage to both sides of an issue, giving both sides potentially equal validity even when one side is demonstrably lying. Jake Tapper is getting extra press right now because he finally called the liars out on their lies. That simply doesn't happen in mainstream media like CNN.

But you can't even try to tell me that "both sides do it, it's the same thing". Because I'll call bullshit on that.

Well, I call bullshit on your bullshit. Only a ideologue could watch Rachel Maddow and think "this is credible and reasonable" when she is yelling "Literally Hitler! and claiming that Trump is the last President of the US, or look at the like of race-baiters like Van Jones on CNN insinuating Trump won because white people hate black people, or Donna Brazile feeding the debate questions to the Clinton Campaign, or New York Times letting Clinton essentially edit their article of her or any of any number of examples I could list. I would say at this point Fox has more credibility than many of the "liberal" media", and I do not consider Fox a particularly credible either.

As gullible as you are, I'm not surprised by your arguments.
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13-02-2017, 01:43 PM
RE: Illiberal Left Shuts Down Free Speech with Violence (Again)
(10-02-2017 03:35 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  
(10-02-2017 03:24 PM)abaris Wrote:  Trump won on the most primitive instincts humanity has to offer. He at least won despite being endorsed by the KKK and David Duke. So people voting for him were at least comfortable or didn't mind these kinds of endorsments. He also won because the alternative candidate was as appealing as the small pocks.

He won for many reasons, but I think the majority of people really did not care who the KKK endorsed. If I were to guess, I'd say that the KKK probably endorsed Ronald Reagan too, and he won in one of the biggest landslide elections in American History. That does not mean the majority of Americans "didn't mind" the endorsement, they just didn't care. Who is particularly concerned with the political opinions of an openly racist group in 2017? I suspect a VERY small minority. I live in the state where the KKK was founded, in the South, and I never actually knowingly seen or met a anyone who was in the KKK, and haven't met anyone under the age of 80 (as of ~15 years ago) who openly said they didn't like someone based solely on their race.

But how many didn't like someone where race was part of it?

I'm more concerned about openly racist organizations now than ever in my adult lifetime, and I'm 60.
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13-02-2017, 02:01 PM
RE: Illiberal Left Shuts Down Free Speech with Violence (Again)
(13-02-2017 01:43 PM)kemo boy Wrote:  
(10-02-2017 03:35 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  He won for many reasons, but I think the majority of people really did not care who the KKK endorsed. If I were to guess, I'd say that the KKK probably endorsed Ronald Reagan too, and he won in one of the biggest landslide elections in American History. That does not mean the majority of Americans "didn't mind" the endorsement, they just didn't care. Who is particularly concerned with the political opinions of an openly racist group in 2017? I suspect a VERY small minority. I live in the state where the KKK was founded, in the South, and I never actually knowingly seen or met a anyone who was in the KKK, and haven't met anyone under the age of 80 (as of ~15 years ago) who openly said they didn't like someone based solely on their race.

But how many didn't like someone where race was part of it?

I'm more concerned about openly racist organizations now than ever in my adult lifetime, and I'm 60.

If you're more concerned by the KKK more now than you were in the late sixties to early eighties then you don't have the perspective needed to accuse me of being gullible. If good ideas were decided on by the age of the person holding the ideas rather than the merits of the arguments we could forgo all arguments forever and just ask the oldest person in the room what is true. This is an example of an Appeal to Authority, whereby quantity of experience grants expertise. Aside from that personal fears don't make for good arguments unless they are backed up by logic, or predictive data. You can try and sell that, but I ain't buyin'.

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13-02-2017, 02:04 PM
RE: Illiberal Left Shuts Down Free Speech with Violence (Again)
(13-02-2017 02:01 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  
(13-02-2017 01:43 PM)kemo boy Wrote:  But how many didn't like someone where race was part of it?

I'm more concerned about openly racist organizations now than ever in my adult lifetime, and I'm 60.

If you're more concerned by the KKK more now than you were in the late sixties to early eighties then you don't have the perspective needed to accuse me of being gullible. If good ideas were decided on by the age of the person holding the ideas rather than the merits of the arguments we could forgo all arguments forever and just ask the oldest person in the room what is true. This is an example of an Appeal to Authority, whereby quantity of experience grants expertise. Aside from that personal fears don't make for good arguments unless they are backed up by logic, or predictive data. You can try and sell that, but I ain't buyin'.

I said openly racist organizations. There are more than the KKK.
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13-02-2017, 02:07 PM
RE: Illiberal Left Shuts Down Free Speech with Violence (Again)
(13-02-2017 02:04 PM)kemo boy Wrote:  
(13-02-2017 02:01 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  If you're more concerned by the KKK more now than you were in the late sixties to early eighties then you don't have the perspective needed to accuse me of being gullible. If good ideas were decided on by the age of the person holding the ideas rather than the merits of the arguments we could forgo all arguments forever and just ask the oldest person in the room what is true. This is an example of an Appeal to Authority, whereby quantity of experience grants expertise. Aside from that personal fears don't make for good arguments unless they are backed up by logic, or predictive data. You can try and sell that, but I ain't buyin'.

I said openly racist organizations. There are more than the KKK.

Which openly racist organizations are you referencing? Neo-nazis? Skinheads? Black Panthers?

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