Illness proves atheism incoherent ? WTF
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17-09-2014, 10:45 AM (This post was last modified: 17-09-2014 11:20 AM by Doubter.)
Illness proves atheism incoherent ? WTF
Hi! I came across an argument that looks like some sleight of hand.
What's your opinion on it?

Quote:(1) when one says a thing is malfunctionning, one projects purpose to it:
we basically imply it failed to accomplish the aim it was created for.
(2) Therefore, to say someone is unhealty or mentally ill pressuposes their body/mind doesn't work as it should, implying it was somehow intended to work in some way and not in another.
(3) If there is no Creator(s), our body are not designed to do anything: our brain is not intended to think our eyes aren't intended to see; our organs just do what they do.
(4)Therefore, atheists can't have non-arbitrary/objective ground for distinguishing illness from a different way for functionning.
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17-09-2014, 11:01 AM
RE: Illness prove atheism incoherent ? WTF
It's presuppositional and an example of an argument from adverse consequences.

There's no proof there is a purpose to anything, yet they feel it would be "bad" if it there were no purpose. It's their own subjective evaluation of the matter mixed with an assumption that God exists and provides the purpose for which they are looking.

That being said, there is a certain amount of truth to their forth point. The irony is that they haven't proven that they actually do have a non-arbitrary or objective way to view things, either. They've just assumed they do.
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17-09-2014, 11:02 AM
RE: Illness prove atheism incoherent ? WTF
Interesting how theists so often have to resort to overly complicated word play and nitpicking of definitions like this crud to make what they believe is an obvious point.

Popcorn I put more thought into fiction than theists put into reality.
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17-09-2014, 11:05 AM
RE: Illness prove atheism incoherent ? WTF
They also seem to not distinguish between serving a purpose and having a purpose.

Like the moon. It does not have a purpose. It's just there, because some small planet smashed into Earth.
However, now that it's up there it does serve a purpose.

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17-09-2014, 11:17 AM
RE: Illness prove atheism incoherent ? WTF
Quote:(4)Therefore, atheists can't have non-arbitrary/objective ground for distinguishing illness from a different way for functionning.

Heh. I just thought of a more snarky response.

"Says the guy who believes in invisible wizards and talking snakes."

Be careful about using mental illness to attack atheism when theistic beliefs could be accurately described as "delusional".
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17-09-2014, 11:27 AM
RE: Illness proves atheism incoherent ? WTF
There is no shortage of dumb fucks in churches, is there?

Atheism is NOT a Religion. It's A Personal Relationship With Reality!
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17-09-2014, 12:34 PM (This post was last modified: 17-09-2014 12:43 PM by Doubter.)
RE: Illness proves atheism incoherent ? WTF
Funnier is the way he claims only (his branch of) theism justifies that illness is an objective feature of reality :
Quote:The origin of the perception [of illness] and the quantification of the perception [of illness] would both be found in that Personal Being, and an underlining premise (out of logical necessity) would also include that we were made in the image of that Being; in that we have free will and can think\talk\behave out of accord or in accord with the true intentionality (including with our own subjective intentions). Thus if we do not think\talk\behave in accord with the true objective intention (even our own subjective intentions which are misplaced quantitatively) it is a true perception of reality in there being a broken or ill functioning Being or property (in particular to this argument that would include true objective states of mental and physical illness).
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17-09-2014, 12:42 PM
RE: Illness proves atheism incoherent ? WTF
Code:
(3) If there is no Creator(s), our body are not designed to do anything: our brain is not intended to think our eyes aren't intended to see; our organs just do what they do.

Our physical bodies evolved to adapt to the environment, if our leg is broke or eye is poked out, we wouldn't live very long in a native environment. The "intention" of our physical bodies goes no further than what it has adapted to function in our environment.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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17-09-2014, 01:23 PM
RE: Illness proves atheism incoherent ? WTF
(17-09-2014 10:45 AM)Doubter Wrote:  Hi! I came across an argument that looks like some sleight of hand.
What's your opinion on it?

Quote:(1) when one says a thing is malfunctionning, one projects purpose to it:
we basically imply it failed to accomplish the aim it was created for.
(2) Therefore, to say someone is unhealty or mentally ill pressuposes their body/mind doesn't work as it should, implying it was somehow intended to work in some way and not in another.
(3) If there is no Creator(s), our body are not designed to do anything: our brain is not intended to think our eyes aren't intended to see; our organs just do what they do.
(4)Therefore, atheists can't have non-arbitrary/objective ground for distinguishing illness from a different way for functionning.
1) Things don't have to be created for a purpose in order to have a purpose.
2) Yes regarding "mentally ill" and it depends regarding "unhealthy". Not all illness is the body malfunctioning. Reference germ theory. If I crash my car and it no longer starts, is it malfunctioning? No, it's damaged.
3) Our body wasn't designed. It developed in response to the environment in which we live and therefore makes sense within it. Eyes and brains do have a purpose in response to that environment.
4) But we do...

@DonaldTrump, Patriotism is not honoring your flag no matter what your country/leader does. It's doing whatever it takes to make your country the best it can be as long as its not violent.
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17-09-2014, 02:34 PM
RE: Illness proves atheism incoherent ? WTF
I always like to play reductio ad absurdum with a theist argument.

1. When one says a thing smells, one projects purpose to it:
We imply that it is more smelly than a standard smell.

2. Therefore, to say someone is smelly presupposes they are more smelly than the objective standard of smelliness.

3. If there is no Greater Smell, than smells do not mean anything, things just smell.

4. Therefore, atheists can't have non-arbitrary/objective measure of smell without using the Greater Smell to differentiate a standard smell.

5. Something smells about this argument.....Dodgy

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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