Imagine no religion [gone baaaad]
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07-11-2011, 09:15 AM (This post was last modified: 07-11-2011 09:22 AM by kineo.)
RE: Imagine no religion [gone baaaad]
Where I live doesn't matter. I've lived in many places in the US and some places outside the US. My experience is not limited to my front yard. You can call me a "housepet" if you wish, your personal classification has no consequence on my life. If I am "domesticated" by ethical standard, then I am gladly so. Don't mistake being moral and ethical with being "nice". It's not about being "mean" or "nice".

That doesn't mean I'm willing to obey the letter of the law in every circumstance- for example in my hypothetical, I'm willing to house them and get them papers so long as they seem to be who they say they are. I'm certainly not the kind of person who would house a fugitive. But neither are we in a period of lynch mobs roaming the streets looking for victims.
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07-11-2011, 09:39 AM
RE: Imagine no religion [gone baaaad]
(07-11-2011 09:15 AM)kineo Wrote:  Don't mistake being moral and ethical with being "nice".

That doesn't mean I'm willing to obey the letter of the law in every circumstance- for example in my hypothetical, I'm willing to house them and get them papers so long as they seem to be who they say they are. I'm certainly not the kind of person who would house a fugitive. But neither are we in a period of lynch mobs roaming the streets looking for victims.
Are you getting a little wound?

Isolated the first part 'cause I'm moral. That's been going on for a while. Surprised the fuck outta me at first - I'm a "psychopath and felon," not the kind of person one would expect to be a moral standard, but there it is. Lived here six years, I'm confident you'll find approximately zero people who'll disagree with this assessment.

People use words to make themselves different than what they are. I use words to prevent me from becoming something I'm not. Don't confuse the two.

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07-11-2011, 10:33 AM
RE: Imagine no religion [gone baaaad]
(07-11-2011 09:39 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  
(07-11-2011 09:15 AM)kineo Wrote:  Don't mistake being moral and ethical with being "nice".

That doesn't mean I'm willing to obey the letter of the law in every circumstance- for example in my hypothetical, I'm willing to house them and get them papers so long as they seem to be who they say they are. I'm certainly not the kind of person who would house a fugitive. But neither are we in a period of lynch mobs roaming the streets looking for victims.
Are you getting a little wound?

Isolated the first part 'cause I'm moral. That's been going on for a while. Surprised the fuck outta me at first - I'm a "psychopath and felon," not the kind of person one would expect to be a moral standard, but there it is. Lived here six years, I'm confident you'll find approximately zero people who'll disagree with this assessment.

People use words to make themselves different than what they are. I use words to prevent me from becoming something I'm not. Don't confuse the two.

Nope, I'm not wound, but it seems like that's what you're aiming for. Twice now you've mistaken the hypothetical choices I said I'd make with being nice. It seems to me a way to belittle that choice and nothing more. To me it has nothing to do with being nice. A nice person is someone who is agreeable, pleasant, and kind. Whether that definition fits me or not is not relevant to the discussion at hand.
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07-11-2011, 10:34 AM
RE: Imagine no religion [gone baaaad]
Wow, there's some real "characters" round here. It amazes me when people talk like they could kill someone without thinking twice. In my experience that usually means they are pretending to be something they are not.



...and yes, my experience is quite realevant.

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07-11-2011, 11:13 AM
RE: Imagine no religion [gone baaaad]
(07-11-2011 10:34 AM)Stark Raving Wrote:  Wow, there's some real "characters" round here. It amazes me when people talk like they could kill someone without thinking twice. In my experience that usually means they are pretending to be something they are not.



...and yes, my experience is quite realevant.

Yes I see that as well.

Let me clear things up then. I would only kill if it would be a good thing like killing a serial killer or shooting a rapist to stop him from raping someone. Or killing Kim jong ill (I think that's spelled right). Killing people that don't deserve it gets no one anywhere. I'm not heartless and won't kill religious people for simply being religious that's foolish.
The way I look at it is that if the person that has been killed caused nothing but pain and misery then what's the point getting worked up over it?
I hope that cleared things up. The last thing I need is everyone thinking I just talk big.

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07-11-2011, 11:30 AM
RE: Imagine no religion [gone baaaad]
(07-11-2011 10:34 AM)Stark Raving Wrote:  Wow, there's some real "characters" round here. It amazes me when people talk like they could kill someone without thinking twice. In my experience that usually means they are pretending to be something they are not.



...and yes, my experience is quite realevant.

Yeah. I'm sure. You the mod - I'll tell you the truth. angry decreased my rep - no big. Searched, found this topic. I'm on "shine status" 'cause angry thinks I'm an asshole - again no big. But after consideration, I hadda ask myself-

Do I hafta avoid all threads by angry? If the guy don't like me, he ain't gonna wanna hear from me - so this was the test case.

Yeah, I'm playing a role - for this thread, I'm "evil" to angry's "good." It's research for zero-state.

As for myself, I've got nothing to prove - I've been down the mean streets, I've got "street cred." - which others may see as empty talk, but there's two photographs of me on this forum - and if the world stays relatively sane, I intend on publishing under the handle John Cantor.

In Phoenix, theists don't come to my door - it's real simple - associating YHWH with hell is sin. But I ain't gonna "do" shit. I got cred from not throwing a punch. This is just me "exaggerating" because I feel people who "talk nice" haven't been to the unnice places I have been - it ain't personal, it's research.

You the mod - erase this crap if I'm being "out of line," I don't know - that's why there's research.

I don't actually "kill people," I edit them from my conscious perception. In the real world, I make this fist with the thumb sticking out thingy - that's my weapon of mass destruction. That I have yet to test it in the field indicates that training is everything. Mental preparedness is training. Thinking we're not "in the times of tribulation" is plain ignorance.

And you're right, I'm an asshole enough without exaggeration. Big Grin

I'm out.
(07-11-2011 10:33 AM)kineo Wrote:  Nope, I'm not wound, but it seems like that's what you're aiming for.

That wasn't it. I apologize. I was experimenting with "negative morality," exaggerating my "evil" due to the OP - but Stark is here. I can go back to being a plain old asshole. Wink

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07-11-2011, 01:25 PM
RE: Imagine no religion [gone baaaad]
(07-11-2011 11:13 AM)Hamata k Wrote:  Let me clear things up then. I would only kill if it would be a good thing like killing a serial killer or shooting a rapist to stop him from raping someone. Or killing Kim jong ill (I think that's spelled right). Killing people that don't deserve it gets no one anywhere. I'm not heartless and won't kill religious people for simply being religious that's foolish.
The way I look at it is that if the person that has been killed caused nothing but pain and misery then what's the point getting worked up over it?
I hope that cleared things up. The last thing I need is everyone thinking I just talk big.

I think there are some fundamental principles that atheists need to uphold and be seen to uphold - both because they are right, and so that we can show ourselves to be better than the religious.

1.) As atheists and rationalists we believe that there is only one life.
2.) It follows that we have to make the best of this one for ourselves.
3.) It also follows that we must be very careful about taking another life - because they only have one.
4.) Also we cannot know what inpersonal forces may have driven them to become the unpleasant people that they became - though their parents or lack thereof might be a good starting point.
5.) Nor can we predict what they might do to make amends if they are shown some humanity.

So in short I would endeavour to save a life but I would also cleave to justice and if possible trust the legitimate authorities to do their work.
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07-11-2011, 02:26 PM
RE: Imagine no religion [gone baaaad]
(07-11-2011 11:30 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  
(07-11-2011 10:33 AM)kineo Wrote:  Nope, I'm not wound, but it seems like that's what you're aiming for.

That wasn't it. I apologize. I was experimenting with "negative morality," exaggerating my "evil" due to the OP - but Stark is here. I can go back to being a plain old asshole. Wink

I'm sorry I misunderstood, I hope that you don't think I took any of it personally- to me it is just a discussion and a very interesting one at that! This type of discussion is the reason I came to these boards and to see where other people stand on these types of scenarios.
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07-11-2011, 03:26 PM
RE: Imagine no religion [gone baaaad]
Wow, I guess I can really put people on the defensive. Not my intent, but hey, what can you do?

Let me start (I find I have to do this a lot. Are other forum admins/mods really that bad?) by saying; not a single post will be deleted, edited, or moderated here. There is no such thing as "out of line" on these boards. Once again, it's all of your forum as much as mine, so you can say whatever you want, and I will not delete it. Just not how I roll, and it's not how I want my forum to roll either.

That said, I have to ask; do I really come accross as being the kind of guy who thinks that since I am here (meaning in this thread) things should change??

My comments are what they are. It's how I feel. And there may be some people that think they were directed at them when they weren't. (I'm not too bad at seeing when someone is playing devils advocate) But regardless of who thinks my comments were directed at them, rest assured, if I wanted to single out a certain person I likely would have. (OK, I see how my comment could read like it was passive agressive, but it was really aimed at a general sense being given off, not at any one person)

Nuff said.

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07-11-2011, 03:59 PM
RE: Imagine no religion [gone baaaad]
(07-11-2011 03:26 PM)Stark Raving Wrote:  Let me start (I find I have to do this a lot. Are other forum admins/mods really that bad?) by saying; not a single post will be deleted, edited, or moderated here. There is no such thing as "out of line" on these boards.

Good. I would feel guilty as the OP if a post was deleted. I wanted to see what the range of atheist attitudes were. I was not shocked by the views different to mine, but I was surprised that they were the loudest.
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