Imagine there were no Evolution...
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08-12-2011, 10:42 AM
RE: Imagine there were no Evolution...
Well, one thing for sure is that Internet arguments would be decreased by 50%.

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08-12-2011, 10:51 AM
RE: Imagine there were no Evolution...
(08-12-2011 10:42 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  Well, one thing for sure is that Internet arguments would be decreased by 50%.

Makes you wonder what would drive the internet. Porn can only do so much for you when you reach middle age.

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08-12-2011, 11:21 AM
RE: Imagine there were no Evolution...
(08-12-2011 10:31 AM)Erxomai Wrote:  Lilith, in my imaginary scenario, I'd say we are on the same sort of course started with The Enlightenment. There is still science, just like there was Copernicus and Galileo and Newton and Kepler. It's just that we are living in the 21st century and trying to figure out how we got here. What would the world be like if the majority of the western world believed a literal Genesis account? (I know it seems like a majority already does, but not as many believe in a 6000 year old earth as we feel do).

So be heretical. My intention is to think about is Evolution the ONLY theory that would be around in 2011 for the origin of thesis, or would a Darwinless Science come up with another idea?

My imaginary world is not intended to be made up of solely Christians. Just wondering what track the world would have taken if Darwin was removed from the picture and no one else stepped up to show his work.

I don't think there would be any different range of ideas. There is evolution by natural selection, god-guided evolution, and various forms of creationism.
The balance might be different, but the resistance to evolution by natural selection would still be with us and scientific knowledge would still point to the truth.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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08-12-2011, 04:22 PM
RE: Imagine there were no Evolution...
Sitting here looking back, science seems inevitable. Although I have not evolved any solution to this question since yesterday. Big Grin

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08-12-2011, 04:58 PM
RE: Imagine there were no Evolution...
Without the understanding of evolution and to only know creationism... we would still just be here... that's about it.
The world would be a pretty boring place, but we'd still just be here.

Undecided Nothing more to know.
I'd be asking, "why isn't there more to know?" and be burned a heretic. M'bad.
Dodgy Feel free to martyr me anytime, guys.

I think in the end, I just feel like I'm a secular person who has a skeptical eye toward any extraordinary claim, carefully examining any extraordinary evidence before jumping to conclusions. ~ Eric ~ My friend ... who figured it out.
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08-12-2011, 08:44 PM (This post was last modified: 08-12-2011 08:50 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Imagine there were no Evolution...
(08-12-2011 05:52 AM)Chas Wrote:  20th century astronomers discovered galaxies are receding;
20th century biologists discovered antibiotics;
20th century paleontologists uncovered many, many more fossils;
20th century geologists discovered plate tectonics;
20th century biochemists discovered the structure of DNA;
20th century researchers sequenced DNA of different species.

Evolutionary theory would have emerged by the end of the 20th century, at the latest.

That's one of the best tongue-in-cheek posts I've seen in a while. Bravo! Smile

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08-12-2011, 08:58 PM
RE: Imagine there were no Evolution...
(08-12-2011 04:58 PM)kim Wrote:  Undecided Nothing more to know.
I'd be asking, "why isn't there more to know?" and be burned a heretic. M'bad.
Dodgy Feel free to martyr me anytime, guys.

I hadn't thought of the heretic burning thing. That would be problematic...
Only, my imaginary scenario doesn't go back before the Reformation, so we'd still have all the thousands of Protestant denominations and sects. These folks tended to take away the Theocratic power of the Catholic church. So, unless there was a return to the Good Old Days, I'm not sure our society today is that much different. But the few differences, I suspect would be drastic.

All the 20th Century Science that Chas listed still happens without knowledge of Evolution. MAYBE it takes longer because there is more debate about what the cosmology means without Evolution.

You'd still have Atheists, they just wouldn't have the weapons of evolution, so they might have to go underground a bit more?

Christian Apologetics would probably have it's focus turned toward other religions instead of the Evilutionists! That might actually work out as a plus for the NeoAtheists. A divided enemy is easier to overcome.

Hm, I wonder what else?

Oh...Abortion. How would that be different under American law?
I'll clarify that I purposely have not been saying America is radically hyper churched up just because we don't know about Evolution (or whatever possible alternative found by the imaginary scientists of today).
How much of the "It's a woman's choice" argument could be sustained against the NeoCons argument that life begins at conception if we don't have the knowledge of evolution behind us?

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08-12-2011, 09:07 PM
RE: Imagine there were no Evolution...
I would imagine that without the theory of evolution we would still be stuck on certain archaic belief systems. By stuck I mean less that people believe and live as though the bible is true, and more people believe and live as if the bible was all there was. Slavery I'm sure would be in full swing world wide. Women would be ... where they should be... Smile kidding. In short I believe that without anyone having deciding to challenge the fairytale of creation it would definitely leave certain doors perma shut, the main one being equal rights. That just wouldn't be an issue. Also I believe it would hamper other scientific fields, maybe not stop outright, but surely hamper.
Without questioning one very important support for the christian faith, there would be a great fall back in the scientific community, as there would be less precedence for doing so. It would be less ok to question the infallible word of god.
Oddly I also think it would create a sort of complacence among the religious as they would have less of a challenge to their faith. Less reason to study up. I mean if there weren't any strict opposition to us, would we all study religions as closely as we do? Maybe but it would be study of a different kind. I believe that would play an issue for them as well.

I'm hungry for pie.

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08-12-2011, 09:20 PM (This post was last modified: 08-12-2011 09:21 PM by Chas.)
RE: Imagine there were no Evolution...
There were lots of deists and atheists long before Darwin. The Enlightenment was already well underway.

Evolutionary theory would have emerged Darwin or Wallace.
(08-12-2011 08:44 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(08-12-2011 05:52 AM)Chas Wrote:  20th century astronomers discovered galaxies are receding;
20th century biologists discovered antibiotics;
20th century paleontologists uncovered many, many more fossils;
20th century geologists discovered plate tectonics;
20th century biochemists discovered the structure of DNA;
20th century researchers sequenced DNA of different species.

Evolutionary theory would have emerged by the end of the 20th century, at the latest.

That's one of the best tongue-in-cheek posts I've seen in a while. Bravo! Smile

Really? How so?

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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08-12-2011, 09:21 PM
RE: Imagine there were no Evolution...
(08-12-2011 09:07 PM)lucradis Wrote:  I would imagine that without the theory of evolution we would still be stuck on certain archaic belief systems. By stuck I mean less that people believe and live as though the bible is true, and more people believe and live as if the bible was all there was. Slavery I'm sure would be in full swing world wide. Women would be ... where they should be... Smile kidding. In short I believe that without anyone having deciding to challenge the fairytale of creation it would definitely leave certain doors perma shut, the main one being equal rights. That just wouldn't be an issue. Also I believe it would hamper other scientific fields, maybe not stop outright, but surely hamper.
Without questioning one very important support for the christian faith, there would be a great fall back in the scientific community, as there would be less precedence for doing so. It would be less ok to question the infallible word of god.
Oddly I also think it would create a sort of complacence among the religious as they would have less of a challenge to their faith. Less reason to study up. I mean if there weren't any strict opposition to us, would we all study religions as closely as we do? Maybe but it would be study of a different kind. I believe that would play an issue for them as well.

I'm hungry for pie.

You bring up some great thoughts, mainly pie.

I would simply point out that the American Civil War ended 3 years before Origin of Species, so I can't agree with the thought of slavery being world wide. Most countries in the Western world, anyway, had given up slavery long before the US. And what was the force behind ending American slavery? I'm not saying this was the only force, because I don't know, but I do know the Northern Abolitionists were the ones to fight slavery. Who were they? People who read the New Testament and believed the Apostle Paul when he said in Christ, all are equal and they moved to change an evil institution. The woman's suffrage movement was starting around the time of Origin of Species, so I'm not sure it was that effected by evolution...but maybe? Perhaps? And the equal rights movement was not lead by Evolutionists. Bertrand Russell did not march on Selma, Alabama (my apologies to Mr. Russell if he did)...my point being, the equal rights movement happened in the Christian Church...almost exclusively the Black American Christian Church, but many other Christians joined in. You can't see footage of MLK,jr's protests without seeing token whiteys in the crowd.

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