Immoral Father
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11-10-2015, 07:32 AM
RE: Immoral Father
Quote:How was He tempted?
Not the same way as you except if he was hallucinating from starvation.

Quote:Because I am not perfect. I am too weak sometimes. Sometimes temptation is so strong that I can not resists even if I know I will have consequences.
Anyone can have this experience without blaming some poor devil for it. Sounds quiet schizophrenic to me this kind of thinking. Anyway, I can not think of one thing I couldn't resist if I was convinced the devil was behind it. Except if I knew that there will be no serious consequences from the divine side.

Quote:I am still LEARNING how to become perfect. Those who learn are not perfect yet.
. Just out of curiousity, you mentioned a "physical heavenly father", how can he be "perfect" at the same time? (Morally he can not be perfect as the story in this topic explained).

Quote:(]I believe in literal Second Coming. Yes, He will rule for 1000 years from Heaven. But in the end of 1000 years Satan will have power again for a short time.
Don't see any reason to worry about that Satan. Your Christ seems much more terrible and revenchful, very Juda-Islamitique old dessertschool. To my understanding Jesus stays on Earth maybe somewhere in the sky to rule, but undeniably present.

Quote:[quote]I believe in this. God controls things from Heaven. He also has lots of helpers - His Church - His Saints. We are the tools in His hands.
I hope you learning proces to become perfect is not just about becoming a Saint.

Most of this doesn't appeal to me at all, so if you don't want to reply I won't mind.
It gets weirder and weirder the deeper you go into it.
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11-10-2015, 09:56 AM
RE: Immoral Father
WillemRM Wrote:ALLA:How was He tempted?
Not the same way as you except if he was hallucinating from starvation.
That is an interesting opinion.
WillemRM Wrote:Anyone can have this experience without blaming some poor devil for it.
I agree. Devil doesn't have to be involved every time we have temptations.
WillemRM Wrote:Sounds quiet schizophrenic to me this kind of thinking. Anyway, I can not think of one thing I couldn't resist if I was convinced the devil was behind it.
You don't know this until you experience it. So, I don't believe this.
WillemRM Wrote:Except if I knew that there will be no serious consequences from the divine side.
That is what some people think: "oh, I really want to have sex with this person, I can't resist, but I am sure it will be no serious consequence, God will forgive me when I repent.
Satan convinced Eve (if we believe the scripture): you are not going to die; and fruit was so desirable, so pleasant to her eye. How could she resist?

WillemRM Wrote:Just out of curiousity, you mentioned a "physical heavenly father", how can he be "perfect" at the same time? (Morally he can not be perfect as the story in this topic explained).
In this topic is not explained why the father didn't take his child. What was his motif to let his child to suffer?
Heavenly Father is perfect because He is doing what is right and what is for our best.
WillemRM Wrote:Don't see any reason to worry about that Satan. Your Christ seems much more terrible and revenchful, very Juda-Islamitique old dessertschool. To my understanding Jesus stays on Earth maybe somewhere in the sky to rule, but undeniably present.
Not literally. God can be present anywhere He wants at the same time but not literally. God has physical body and we all know that physical body can not be in different places at the same time.

WillemRM Wrote:I hope you learning proces to become perfect is not just about becoming a Saint.
I am already Saint, not perfect, but Saint. I want to learn to be like Gods. This is what God wants me to want. God's will is the law.
WillemRM Wrote:Most of this doesn't appeal to me at all, so if you don't want to reply I won't mind.
It gets weirder and weirder the deeper you go into it.
That is OK, it is not my goal to make sure that what I say has to be appealing to you.
If you don't reply I don't mind. Smile

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11-10-2015, 10:28 AM
RE: Immoral Father
Lucky for you Eve didn't resist temptation. I would. If there is only one interdiction in paradise I wouldn't take the slightest risk of upsetting the manager. Women!?

But all this is leading to very theistic discussion. And you know how I care about my reputation. So no matter what I or you might ad I leave it here. Bye
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11-10-2015, 10:40 AM
RE: Immoral Father
(11-10-2015 10:28 AM)WillemRM Wrote:  Lucky for you Eve didn't resist temptation. I would.
Lucky for me she didn't resist temptation. Thumbsup If she resisted I wouldn't be here.
(11-10-2015 10:28 AM)WillemRM Wrote:  If there is only one interdiction in paradise I wouldn't take the slightest risk of upsetting the manager. Women!?
Manager was happy. He was waiting for this moment. Eve made a better choice than stay in the garden without having an opportunity to have progression.
(11-10-2015 10:28 AM)WillemRM Wrote:  But all this is leading to very theistic discussion. And you know how I care about my reputation. So no matter what I or you might ad I leave it here. Bye
If you are an atheist you have nothing to worry about. Your reputation will be as positive as any proton. Big Grin

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11-10-2015, 10:42 AM
RE: Immoral Father
Bye, WillemRM

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11-10-2015, 01:28 PM
RE: Immoral Father
(04-10-2015 07:24 AM)Grimol Wrote:  A very wealthy man knocks up a young lady who has a history of substance abuse problems.
A child is born and the man promises to pay several thousand dollars a month and follows through. The mother uses a lot of that money for drugs but she buys a little bit of food and some clothes for the child, just enough to keep people from talking. But she is emotionally and sometimes physically abusive to the child. She goes through a series of drug addicted boyfriends, all of whom are abusive to one degree or another to the child.
The child doesn't know anything about his father except his name. He has never met him nor heard his voice except on the rare occasion when he can just barely hear it as his mother talks to him on the phone. He begs his mother to speak to his father on the phone but when she hands him the receiver, there is no voice talking back. He asks why and is told he needs to listen harder.
The child is suffering and his father knows what is happening yet fails to intervene. He just keeps sending checks that he knows the mother will use to buy drugs.
Shortly after the child turns 16, his mother dies of a drug overdose. The father is contacted by social services and agrees to accept the child in his big mansion.
By this time, the child has developed severe anger issues. He is angry at his father for not stepping in sooner, for not being there as a father should be, for not even allowing the child to hear his voice, and so the child says "I have no father."
The father says"If you can't accept me and all that I have done for you as your father, then you can't live in my mansion. I provided for you yet you are ungrateful." The child is then sent out into the cold where he lives on the street for several months before dying a lonely and miserable death. His father heard about the death of the child but did not care at all.

The father in this story is an immoral asshole, but he's exact model of the Christian god that we are expected to worship and adore.
He provides no tangible evidence of his existence until it is too late. He fails to intervene when his children are suffering, even though he is fully aware. And when the time comes for us to go to his mansion, if we refuse to acknowledge his existence, he sends us out to die.
This is where we get our morality?

If I actually believed in the god of the babble, I would, no doubt, be a dedicated satanist.Evil_monster

If we believe absurdities, we shall commit atrocities.--Voltaire.

"To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason is like administering medicine to the dead." --Thomas Paine.
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11-10-2015, 01:49 PM
RE: Immoral Father
(08-10-2015 11:36 AM)Alla Wrote:  
(05-10-2015 06:25 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  Apologists will tell you that this analogy falls flat because the abuser in the Bible can do what he wants because of his absolute moral authority and infinite wisdom. Basically, he really does know what's best for us, and it wouldn't be a problem if we'd just do what he wants.


[Image: skeptical-sm_zps59fc1324.png]
It falls flat for another reason. We don't know why this father let his child to live far away from him in the worlds where there is lots of evil.

I know why Heavenly Father sent me here - to have experience that He had. Without this earthly experience I can not become like Gods/ I can not have godhood.

P.S. I want to become All-knowing. I want to inherit worlds and I want to create my own worlds the way my Heavenly Parents do.

For my part, I'll pass on the godhood thing. Thanks anyway.

If we believe absurdities, we shall commit atrocities.--Voltaire.

"To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason is like administering medicine to the dead." --Thomas Paine.
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11-10-2015, 03:05 PM
RE: Immoral Father
(11-10-2015 01:49 PM)666wannabe Wrote:  For my part, I'll pass on the godhood thing. Thanks anyway.
Sure. I guess you know what is best for you. Smile

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13-10-2015, 08:23 AM
RE: Immoral Father
Despite what different people believe about how to attain perfection--I believe it comes via reliance on Jesus Christ rather than by what is called "eternal progression"--most people believe God is at work and is able to help them through their troubles--even most people who are self-reliant and deny God's help acknowledge God awaits their call for help.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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13-10-2015, 04:43 PM
RE: Immoral Father
(13-10-2015 08:23 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Despite what different people believe about how to attain perfection--I believe it comes via reliance on Jesus Christ rather than by what is called "eternal progression"--most people believe God is at work and is able to help them through their troubles--even most people who are self-reliant and deny God's help acknowledge God awaits their call for help.

So... To you, a perfect person by definition would be reliant on another, albeit magical, person?

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