In Abraham's Shoes
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14-11-2014, 10:28 AM
RE: In Abraham's Shoes
I'm sure a lot of the people who wrote the Bible were sadistic psychopaths... There's almost no empathy in the Bible, no compassion, or consideration of basic human emotions.

Its never more apparent than when it deals with children... The lives of children are given absolutely no value at all in the Bible. Throughout the Bible, children die to either punish or test the parents.

Even though much of it is almost certainly fiction, it takes a sick mind to invent a world like that, and a complete idiot to call it just and fair.

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14-11-2014, 10:54 AM
RE: In Abraham's Shoes
(14-11-2014 10:28 AM)Sam Wrote:  I'm sure a lot of the people who wrote the Bible were sadistic psychopaths... There's almost no empathy in the Bible, no compassion, or consideration of basic human emotions.

Its never more apparent than when it deals with children... The lives of children are given absolutely no value at all in the Bible. Throughout the Bible, children die to either punish or test the parents.

Even though much of it is almost certainly fiction, it takes a sick mind to invent a world like that, and a complete idiot to call it just and fair.

Except they didn't really "invent" anything. The mores that were written into the Bible texts were taken from the prevailing culture. They're barbaric to us, but women and children were not "valued" in general, in the same way as we see it today. It's important, as the reverse argument (that there are "moral absolutes") is refuted by this very point. The Bible is as barbaric as the prevailing culture that produced it. It's no different, and not "special" in any way from the humans who cooked up the texts in the first place. If it *were different* or somehow "special", then religionists might have a point ("inspired"). The texts are no different.

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14-11-2014, 11:59 AM
RE: In Abraham's Shoes
(14-11-2014 10:54 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  If it *were different* or somehow "special", then religionists might have a point ("inspired"). The texts are no different.

Muslims actually try that with the way the Koran is written.

It is so masterful, so brilliant, so awe inspiring, so unlike other Arabic literary conventions that the only possible explanation is that it came from God. No one has ever been able to write a paragraph like the Koran which proves that the miracle claim is true. Facepalm

On the other hand, this supposedly happened, so maybe it's all B.S.

Quote:One scribe was `Abdullah Ibn Sa'd Ibn Abi Sarh. As Sarh wrote these revelations down, he frequently made suggestions on improving their wording. Muhammad often agreed and allowed the changes to be made. Eventually, Sarh left Islam, knowing it could not be from God if a mere scribe were allowed to change God's word. Later, after the conquest of Mecca, Muhammad ordered Sarh's death.

http://www.answering-islam.org/Quran/Sources/sarh.html

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14-11-2014, 02:34 PM (This post was last modified: 15-11-2014 07:14 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: In Abraham's Shoes
(14-11-2014 11:59 AM)Can_of_Beans Wrote:  
(14-11-2014 10:54 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  If it *were different* or somehow "special", then religionists might have a point ("inspired"). The texts are no different.

Muslims actually try that with the way the Koran is written.

It is so masterful, so brilliant, so awe inspiring, so unlike other Arabic literary conventions that the only possible explanation is that it came from God. No one has ever been able to write a paragraph like the Koran which proves that the miracle claim is true. Facepalm

On the other hand, this supposedly happened, so maybe it's all B.S.

Quote:One scribe was `Abdullah Ibn Sa'd Ibn Abi Sarh. As Sarh wrote these revelations down, he frequently made suggestions on improving their wording. Muhammad often agreed and allowed the changes to be made. Eventually, Sarh left Islam, knowing it could not be from God if a mere scribe were allowed to change God's word. Later, after the conquest of Mecca, Muhammad ordered Sarh's death.

http://www.answering-islam.org/Quran/Sources/sarh.html

Exactly. Down towards the bottom of post 247 here : http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...ns?page=25 this was discussed and
there are a couple links that discuss that very point. Arabic poetry was considered "advanced" and there is no "giant leap" forward in either poetry or science in the Quran.

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15-11-2014, 02:20 PM
RE: In Abraham's Shoes
(13-11-2014 01:28 PM)Plan 9 from OS Wrote:  These types of stories are what makes you really scratch your head about Christianity. If God is omnipotent, omnipresent and showed to Abraham that he was the one and only true God out there, then it would be a no brainer to do exactly like he says. Where is the faith needed for that? If you are facing an impossibly power who not only has the ability to end your life, but torture you forever after death, then you would automatically become the biggest "yes man" in the world. This doesn't make sense to me. However, if at the time it was assumed that God was one of a number of other Gods and he was a God to only the people of Abraham, then I understand the story much more clearly because in Abraham's mind Yaweh is HIS God and to switch sides and worship Baal would anger Yaweh. Then the faith would be...is Yaweh a stronger god than Baal, for example.

The concept of ignoring an order for the greater good - what everyone in Nuremberg said the Germans should have done instead of gassing millions of Jews when these people were on trial - was never developed until after Christianity developed for a period of time. IMHO, I don't think that concept ever developed until the Enlightenment or maybe a hundred years before. The idea of blindly serving a master and a king especially was a common belief and cultural practice back then. The belief being that the king/ruling party was put there thru the grace of God. Therefore, it's hard to interpret these various parts of scripture for us because we know the final product - Christianity in it's most current form.

That's an interesting take on how the times of that day could have affected Abraham's decision. Thanks for that. Gave me something to ponder.

I am not accountable to any God. I am accountable to myself - and not because I think I am God as some theists would try to assert - but because, no matter what actions I take, thoughts I think, or words I utter, I have to be able to live with myself.
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