In Christianity, What's the Point of Earth?
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10-09-2014, 09:43 PM
RE: In Christianity, What's the Point of Earth?
(10-09-2014 08:14 PM)Dunkleweizen Wrote:  I really like the view portrayed in Milton's Paradise Lost....that the life on earth is merely a test to see whether we are truly good or evil because how could we know if someone is truly good if there is nothing to tempt them with? Can we truly have good without a comparative evil?

Maybe.

But that's remarkably short-sighted. Yeah, sure, it makes some sense for us petty humans with bum-niscience and lame-nipotence. But for an OMniscient god who knows EXACTLY what will happen there is no need for a test; he already knows which of us will pass and which will fail. And for an OMnipotent god who can do ANYTHING without FAIL this is a stupid way to conduct a test - no control groups, no clear guidelines for the test, infinite punishment or infinite reward for a finite test without any clear understanding of what or how we're being tested.

I mean, come on, any 1st year psychology student could do much, much better.

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10-09-2014, 09:52 PM
RE: In Christianity, What's the Point of Earth?
It's because earth is where they have the money that god...or the holy joes who claim to speak for him....are always looking for.

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11-09-2014, 02:06 AM
RE: In Christianity, What's the Point of Earth?
(10-09-2014 08:57 PM)CleverUsername Wrote:  
(10-09-2014 04:52 PM)One Above All Wrote:  Unsurprisingly, it doesn't make any sense if you take into account the Bible. Eden was not on Earth. There is absolutely no reason for YHWH to have made Earth, unless he knew Adam and Eve would sin, and so created a place where he could toss them after they had sinned.

It wasn't? Wasn't the whole thing that God made the planet, made all the stuff on it, then made a dude to hang with all the new animals, then made a girl once he got lonely?

Or, did the Sunday School and children's book version (now that I think about it, I don't even know where I first heard this story) leave out something, as usual? Huh

JW's teach that Eden was not on Earth. IIRC there's some biblical support for this. Then again, there's probably biblical support for the opposite; you know how it is: YHWH says "Don't kill" in one verse, then says "Kill these people" in the next.

The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
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11-09-2014, 06:28 AM
RE: In Christianity, What's the Point of Earth?
(10-09-2014 04:48 PM)CleverUsername Wrote:  In Christianity and it's various little off shoots, is there any explanation as to why God supposedly plopped us on Earth in the first place?

Post hoc rationalization of what the Bible says in light of what we can see in the really real world?

In all seriousness, the answer I get from the fundies is basically that God wants to have friends. Now, he needs to know that his friends love him, and that they aren't just going through the motions, so he sets things up so the friends have an opportunity to rape each other. By not raping each other, they show God how much they love him.

Now, if that seems completely fucked, it's because it is. Almighty God apparently has serious self esteem issues. He needs beings with Free Will so he can tell if their friendship is genuine (he doesn't want robot friends). So, he allows us to rape each other as a test. Note, that God doesn't put himself down here to be harmed by our actions; he just lets us do that to each other.

"I know you've always loved me, and I'm thankful for that. I'm sorry you got raped. Your rapist didn't love me enough."

I mean, what the actual fuck?
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11-09-2014, 07:38 AM
RE: In Christianity, What's the Point of Earth?
(10-09-2014 09:43 PM)Aseptic Skeptic Wrote:  
(10-09-2014 08:14 PM)Dunkleweizen Wrote:  I really like the view portrayed in Milton's Paradise Lost....that the life on earth is merely a test to see whether we are truly good or evil because how could we know if someone is truly good if there is nothing to tempt them with? Can we truly have good without a comparative evil?

Maybe.

But that's remarkably short-sighted. Yeah, sure, it makes some sense for us petty humans with bum-niscience and lame-nipotence. But for an OMniscient god who knows EXACTLY what will happen there is no need for a test; he already knows which of us will pass and which will fail. And for an OMnipotent god who can do ANYTHING without FAIL this is a stupid way to conduct a test - no control groups, no clear guidelines for the test, infinite punishment or infinite reward for a finite test without any clear understanding of what or how we're being tested.

I mean, come on, any 1st year psychology student could do much, much better.

That's why I stick with Mr. Deity's version of God, he simply turned off his omniscience

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11-09-2014, 07:45 AM
RE: In Christianity, What's the Point of Earth?
I got on to ICR.org and they say that god created Earth to be inhabited by man. Ok, but WHY?
Found another site and they say god did it to display his glory. Someone commented that it seemed like he was showing off, they replied that god is worthy. Facepalm

Another person cited Proverbs -The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil. Proverbs 16.4

What- The-Actual Fuck??? For the day of evil???!!!

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Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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11-09-2014, 08:55 AM
RE: In Christianity, What's the Point of Earth?
(11-09-2014 07:45 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  Another person cited Proverbs -The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil. Proverbs 16.4

What- The-Actual Fuck??? For the day of evil???!!!

You didn't know about that? I've had that one on my calendar for a long time. I'm planning on hosting a sweet rave party.

Probably get a keg and a party sub, too, or something. No, two kegs. Consider [Image: awesome.gif]
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11-09-2014, 09:08 AM
RE: In Christianity, What's the Point of Earth?
(10-09-2014 08:02 PM)WindyCityJazz Wrote:  
(10-09-2014 04:52 PM)One Above All Wrote:  Unsurprisingly, it doesn't make any sense if you take into account the Bible. Eden was not on Earth. There is absolutely no reason for YHWH to have made Earth, unless he knew Adam and Eve would sin, and so created a place where he could toss them after they had sinned.

If the Christian god is all-knowing, as Christians claim, then he did know that Adam and Eve would sin. The incredibly stupid thing is creating them knowing they were going to sin before you even create them, then getting pissed off when it happens. It's as stupid as me standing on a 1,000 foot high ledge and dropping a glass from it, and then getting pissed that the glass broke when it hit the pavement. It's flat out stupidity.

Just for the sake of argument, I think it's possible to define omniscience in such a way that the omniscient being knows everything about what has happened and what exists, but not necessarily about what will happen. I'm pretty sure Swinburne (one of the more competent Christian apologists) defines it this way.
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11-09-2014, 09:17 AM
RE: In Christianity, What's the Point of Earth?
(11-09-2014 09:08 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  Just for the sake of argument, I think it's possible to define omniscience in such a way that the omniscient being knows everything about what has happened and what exists, but not necessarily about what will happen. I'm pretty sure Swinburne (one of the more competent Christian apologists) defines it this way.

I'm curious where he gets the justification for that definition, aside from it making certain types of apologetics easier. There are parts of the Bible that mention God being able to see the future.
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11-09-2014, 10:07 AM
RE: In Christianity, What's the Point of Earth?
(10-09-2014 04:48 PM)CleverUsername Wrote:  In Christianity and it's various little off shoots, is there any explanation as to why God supposedly plopped us on Earth in the first place?

I mean, they preach that God takes all of his followers up to heaven after 100 years of Earth, at the most, which is less than the blink of an eye in comparison to eternity. They all claim he's going to just completely dispense of this place any day now and snatch everyone up into heaven. And possibly the only thing all faiths agree on is that, compared to heaven, Earth sucks.

So why the hell are we here? Their God obviously doesn't want us here. I know the stupid Adam and Eve story but why was he putting his super duper beloved creations on a planet to begin with when he presumably already had heaven, with its complete lack of evil snakes and knowledge granting fruit? As far as I know there's no mention heaven was made later. All we're accomplishing is supposedly sending a few billion to hell.

(Yes, I know the correct answer is "Because God doesn't exist".)


Isn't obvious?

Yahweh created the entire universe, 200 billion galaxies, each with at least 100 billion stars, almost all of those with a planetary system and literally countless planets, and plopped us down on one of them, as an enormousness 'Soul Filtering' machine.

Not sure why he had to create all those other galaxies, stars and planets, if this is the only planet that matters to his 'Soul Filtering' machine? But, hey, he's god.

Sure, he could have just created us already in Heaven with him to worship him. But he had to play his game. Creating billions of humans, knowing ahead of time that the vast majority of us would not pass his 'Soul Filtering' machine.

What an asshole.
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