In God We Trust
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07-02-2014, 03:52 PM
RE: In God We Trust
(07-02-2014 03:47 PM)Im_Ryan Wrote:  
(07-02-2014 03:25 PM)Alla Wrote:  No, it is not



Exactly. It was my assumption. My assumption was not based on words "I hate America". So I never said you said this.

I can't because assumptions can be wrong and I will be the first person who will reject this assumption when I know it is not true.
So, do you love America? And what do you love the most about America?

Actually it was humorous. It really was.
Are you embarrassed to be an American?

OK that makes sense. Let me teach you something here:
When you ask a question like you did, it implies that I actually said it. If this is not what you mean, then the sentence is grammatically incorrect.
You should've said: "Ryan, do you hate America?"

Let me show you an example:

Incorrect: "Alla, why do you hate Europe?"
Correct: "Alla, do you hate Europe?"

See the difference?


2. Then an argument based on an assumption is not worth my time.

3. Yes, sometimes.
I do like my country, I don't hate America. I hate what it has become.
There is more patriotism in voicing your concerns about your country than there is in blindly following it. Too many people do not understand exactly that, which is a founding principle of America.
What is founding principle of America according to your understanding?
And thanks for a little lesson. I appreciate any help from others.

English is not my native language.
that awkward moment between the Premortal Existence and your Resurrection
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07-02-2014, 03:54 PM
RE: In God We Trust
(07-02-2014 03:47 PM)mrlmichael Wrote:  
(07-02-2014 03:44 PM)Alla Wrote:  Believe me people like this exist in every country. You don't have to be embarrassed to be an American.
But any way, I wish you save flight(I assume) and have a great life. What country in Europe?

Well, in my two years in Germany and two years in Belgium, I rarely encountered people like the fundamentalist Christians you see here. There might be a few isolated pockets in some of the Muslim or Turk communities.

I am heading back to Belgium(flying yes). I appreciate the well wishes.
I have never been there. But I have many friends(Ukrainians) who live in Germany now. They like to live there.

English is not my native language.
that awkward moment between the Premortal Existence and your Resurrection
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07-02-2014, 04:55 PM
RE: In God We Trust
I watched this entire video too, it took me a few breaks to get over being pissed off, and all I can say is 'Fuck me" , I cant believe that people like this exist.

I also found this to be informative, I never knew that "Rolling Thunder" was this involved in the woo, you can bet your ass that I wont be supporting them in the future.

I'm just so pissed that I dont know what to say about a country that I've served in the military and the new age RUB bikers that spout this nonsense, but be assured its not all of us.

Damn !!!! Confused
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07-02-2014, 05:00 PM
RE: In God We Trust
Alla, how old are you?

...
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07-02-2014, 05:05 PM
RE: In God We Trust
Oh, BTW, I found Drich in the video at around 46:20..... LOL Big Grin

Alla, what the fuck ? You seem to play both sides of the fence and cant get right. Why dont you state what you believe in for once. You seem to enjoy the banter, but wont commit to a clear stance..... I'm confused with your ramblings. Huh
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07-02-2014, 05:28 PM (This post was last modified: 07-02-2014 05:37 PM by meremortal.)
RE: In God We Trust
(07-02-2014 03:52 PM)Alla Wrote:  What is founding principle of America according to your understanding?
And thanks for a little lesson. I appreciate any help from others.

It's actually a complex answer. You would need to read the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution, but also the writings of the individual founders to see their views and how they shaped their input to these documents and the structure of the government and early laws.

But for the basics:
From the Declaration of Independence:
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."

I know, I know - don't get all excited about "Creator". Thomas Jefferson was a Deist, as were most of the Founders. But he did not have kind words to say about the bible or christianity.

From the Constitution:
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
Article 1 establishes the Legislative branch and its roles and limitations
Article 2 establishes the Executive branch and its roles and limitations
Article 3 establishes the Judicial branch and its roles and limitations
The Bill of Rights were the first 10 amendments. Some of the rights listed there are freedom of speech, the press, religion, assembly and petitioning the government, to bear arms, freedom from unreasonable search and seizure, freedom from self incrimination, right to a fair and speedy trial by jury, to be informed of the charges against you, and to confront your accuser, protection from cruel and unusual punishment.

Yeah, I guess it's a pretty decent country, even with all the bat shit crazy theists. Damn 1st amendment.Big Grin

tl/dr - LIBERTY
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07-02-2014, 05:38 PM
RE: In God We Trust
(07-02-2014 05:28 PM)meremortal Wrote:  ...
I know, I know - don't get all excited about "Creator". Thomas Jefferson was a Deist, as were most of the Founders.
...

And what's more, Thomas Jefferson actually took a razor blade to the bible and literally cut out any parts of the bible that had any mention of the supernatural, removed all miracles including all miracles by Jesus and the "resurrection" or anything that claimed Jesus was divine.

When fundies claim that our country was founded by Christians as a Christian Nation, they need to have a little relearning of who and what our founding fathers actually were.

...
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07-02-2014, 05:42 PM
RE: In God We Trust
One thing I would add, and I noticed this from the crazies in the video, but this is not limited to them. The United States is not a Democracy. This word is constantly thrown around in schools and media but it just simply is not the case. There was one point in the video where some people talk about "majority rule" and all of that. The founders knew, and were right, that Democracy and majority rule is inherently dangerous to liberty. It is simple for an oppressive majority (like Christians) to silence and oppress a minority (atheist). We instead got a Constitutional Republic, which is a far superior idea, not that we always use it well these days.
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07-02-2014, 05:51 PM
RE: In God We Trust
(07-02-2014 03:47 PM)Im_Ryan Wrote:  Too many people do not understand exactly that, which is a founding principle of America.
Could you please name some of those people(groups)?

English is not my native language.
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07-02-2014, 05:52 PM
RE: In God We Trust
(07-02-2014 05:42 PM)mrlmichael Wrote:  One thing I would add, and I noticed this from the crazies in the video, but this is not limited to them. The United States is not a Democracy. This word is constantly thrown around in schools and media but it just simply is not the case. There was one point in the video where some people talk about "majority rule" and all of that. The founders knew, and were right, that Democracy and majority rule is inherently dangerous to liberty. It is simple for an oppressive majority (like Christians) to silence and oppress a minority (atheist). We instead got a Constitutional Republic, which is a far superior idea, not that we always use it well these days.

Absolutely. To somewhat keep in the context of the thread (sorry for the hijack), the exact wording of the "freedom of religion clause" is "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;". So its as much a right to freedom from religion as it is freedom to practice. Like you said, meant to protect from a majority wanting to impose its will (in this case, religious) on others with whom they do not agree.

So the crazies are free to believe and practice whatever they like in their homes and their houses of worship. But they don't have the right to force it in public schools where my kids will have to listen to it. Of course, when you try to stop them, then they cry "persecution!". Ugh.
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