In Uncharted Lands with Alla
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17-12-2015, 07:35 AM
RE: In Uncharted Lands with Alla
Unless you like hunting, gardening and/or fishing for sport or like to build stuff...

some people turn their hobby and games into career. Are this people considered hard worker?

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17-12-2015, 07:54 AM
RE: In Uncharted Lands with Alla
epronovost Wrote:Unless you like hunting, gardening and/or fishing for sport or like to build stuff...
Those are good skills.

epronovost Wrote:some people turn their hobby and games into career. Are this people considered hard worker?
I would consider them hard workers if this is the way they provide for themselves and others.

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17-12-2015, 03:21 PM
RE: In Uncharted Lands with Alla
Some of your question to me about my religion. You don't have to reply. Unless you choose to do so.
I like to answer people their questions when I can.



epronovost Wrote:God cannot act to help us because it would take away our moral agency
God can help us without robbing our agency. And He does help us without robbing our moral agency. It happens when His will and our will are the same.
epronovost Wrote:Thus, if God uses demons and devils, has a plan and act upon this world, he is robbing us from our moral agency and free will by testing us and manipulating us like puppets from time to time.
No, He doesn't rob our moral agency by using devils. I don't even understand why would you conclude this.
epronovost Wrote:If gods have an important purpose, this means they have a moral agency themselves which can logically clash with the moral agency and purpose of their own «children». What happen then? Do gods surrender to the will of their «children» because them developing their moral agency and asserting their will is more important then their own objectives? Is it the other way around? Gods are wiser and more powerful. They could consider their objectives and their freedom to be more important than those of their creation.
If moral agency of God's children clashes with moral agency of God, God let them to make their choices. This is the point, this is the time and this is the place to make our own moral choices.
epronovost Wrote:Furthermore, considering that in your belief system there is souls, heaven, afterlife and reincarnation, gods aren't more immortals than their own children unless spirits can die.
We don't believe in reincarnation. Gods are immortal.
epronovost Wrote:If you were correct, we all are already immortal. Your death is just a transitionnal state from body Alla to spirit Alla.
No, physical death is not transition from body Alla to spirit Alla. Physical death is spirit(Alla) leaves physical body(flesh, bone and blood)
Spirit is eternal, physical body that we have now is mortal. But in resurrection everybody has immortal physical body. Resurrection is re-union of spirit and physical body flesh and bone, but not blood. Blood makes our physical bodies mortal. Gods have bodies flesh and bone. Mortals have body flesh, bones and blood.
I assume you know this because you said that you read the Bible.
epronovost Wrote:Can gods be killed?
No. They are immortal beings.
epronovost Wrote:Can a soul be destroyed?
Yes. Spirits can be destroyed. Spirits like Lucifer and his demons. They will be destroyed eventually. They chose to be destroyed. They will get what they wished.
epronovost Wrote:Can a demon or a devil be killed?
Yes. The answer is above.
epronovost Wrote:Could a terrorist like group of demons decide to murder thousand of unborn souls just because they want to and are filled with hate for some reason or another?
No, they don't have this power. Also unborn spirits are in heaven and devils are here on earth.
epronovost Wrote:What happen when two gods have a conflicting agenda or don't agree on something important.
Do you mean Gods? not gods. No. They mind their own businesses and they don't get involved in business of other Gods.
epronovost Wrote:Mythologie is filled with gods fighting, hating, competing against one another.
True( real) Gods are not like that, otherwise they wouldn't be Gods. There is unity and harmony in the world of true, real Gods because true, real Gods are perfect men and women and they obey eternal laws.
epronovost Wrote:Since all gods became gods and are descendant themselves of god, this doesn't explain why demons are weaker both have the same origin.
Because demons are those gods who don't have physical bodies, so, they can not become perfect as Gods. So, they can not obtain power of Gods. If they chose to have physical bodies before God created this world they wouldn't be demons but they would become humans and later they could become Gods. But they chose different path.
You chose to become God. That is why you have physical body and came to earth. If you chose in pre-mortal life not to accept God's plan you would be demon now - evil spirit without physical body.
epronovost Wrote:Could a god become so good that any weakness or any flaw would disgust him to the point he would rather eradicate it instead of allowing it to live and make people suffer thus becoming just has evil and twisted than any other demons, but with the opposite nature?
I didn't get what you really ask. I am sorry.
epronovost Wrote:Living in your world seems to be so complicated for nothing. There is so much contradiction, mental gymnastic, half-baked explanation and invisible magic.

My world is not as complicated as it seems to you. You se contradictions because you don't have the whole picture of what I believe. Only little pieces and you don't know how to put them together.

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17-12-2015, 07:20 PM
RE: In Uncharted Lands with Alla
I don't mind staring with those questions. In my interview process I was going to get to those at some point, but I wnated to build up to them.

If I understand you correctly, when God and and human have the same agency, God can help that person. If that person doesn't have the same agency then god will not help him. This robs of us of our moral agency by making giving a massive advantage to those who obey God, but seems understandable (if completly impossible to demonstrate) when stated like that, but its contradicted by the following elements.

According to you, God send demons and devils (are these two different things or two different names for the same thing?) to test us and tempt us in doing things that we would not normally do, thus he is affecting our moral agency by introducing willingly a negative bias. If God send a demon and that demon tempt you in doing something wrong, then your moral agency has been distorted by that of the demon who used his cunning and his powers to corrupt you much like a frauder convince you to give your money to him only to steal it. You are a victime of the demon under the order of God and ultimatly he is respponsible for your actions since his own action have affected yours. If it's true tha you are guilty of the action commited under the demon influence, the demon and is patron God are also involved. Thus God sometimes work against his own agency and against ours.

Furhtermore, you have stated that God help those who share his moral agency and agree with him and doesn't help those who don't. In that case, he doesn't give a choice, he present you a false choice. A false choice is when one option is clearly and demonstrably ridiculously more advantageous than another. For exemple: «Alla would you like this piece of delicious birthday cake or would you prefer a violent and forceful sodomie administered by 425 pounds smelly wrestler?». Saying that this was a choice would be horribly dishonest unless since you will certainly take option one, unless I sent my best friend to tell you that a violent and forceful sodomie administered by 425 pounds smelly wrestler is actually a code phrase for $15 000 cash. Then, if it happen my best friend that I sned was actually liying and you would get the forceful sodomie even though you thought it would be $15 000 then you can understand how sick your God's system is, because its exactly that.

Now my new questions:

1) Why and how are Gods immortal? How do you kow this?

2) How can a spirit be destroyed? (what can damage a spirit? Also, can they be injured? Can a spirit be brough back from the dead?

3) How do you know demon and devils don't have this power? Why can't they travel to where the Gods and unborn children are?

4) How do you know that Gods keep to themselves all the time?

5) What are the eternal laws? Are they descriptive laws like gravity or prescriptive laws like do not murder?

I have many more, but let start with these. Take your time with your answers.

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17-12-2015, 08:21 PM
RE: In Uncharted Lands with Alla
Thanks for your comments and questions. I will answer them.

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18-12-2015, 12:04 AM
RE: In Uncharted Lands with Alla
epronovost Wrote:If I understand you correctly, when God and and human have the same agency, God can help that person. If that person doesn't have the same agency then god will not help him. This robs of us of our moral agency by making giving a massive advantage to those who obey God, but seems understandable (if completly impossible to demonstrate) when stated like that, but its contradicted by the following elements.
I didn't say "the same agency", I said "the same will".

Let's say I want to do something(it is my moral choice/my will). I may ask God to help me. God may help me if He is happy with my choice. By helping me He doesn't rob me from my moral agency because choice was mine, God didn't force me to make this choice. God just assists me.
If God is not happy with my choice, He wouldn't stop me from doing it but He wouldn't help me. If He had to help me it would rob His moral agency, he would be forced to do something against His will.
epronovost Wrote:According to you, God send demons and devils (are these two different things or two different names for the same thing?)
The same. They also can be called "fallen angels". They are spirit children of God - His sons and daughters but they are fallen, they didn't accept Father's plan. By making this choice they lost their agency. That was their last choice. They rejected their agency.
epronovost Wrote:to test us and tempt us in doing things that we would not normally do, thus he is affecting our moral agency by introducing willingly a negative bias. If God send a demon and that demon tempt you in doing something wrong, then your moral agency has been distorted by that of the demon who used his cunning and his powers to corrupt you much like a frauder convince you to give your money to him only to steal it. You are a victime of the demon under the order of God and ultimatly he is respponsible for your actions since his own action have affected yours. If it's true tha you are guilty of the action commited under the demon influence, the demon and is patron God are also involved. Thus God sometimes work against his own agency and against ours.
1)God is not patron of devils. God doesn't give them order to tempt us. He only sent them here. God never told demons: "go and tempt humans/mortals". If Satan chose not to tempt us God wouldn't force him. If demons or Satan tempt us and we choose to do evil nobody is accountable but us. We make the choice. I can be tempted to do evil but Satan has no power to force me. It is my responsibility to overcome temptation and to say "no".
2) If God doesn't provide opposition of good then it is not possible to have agency - it is not possible to make MORAL choices. All our choices would be neutral: no sins and no righteousness. So, when there is opposition in all things then we have an opportunity to exercise our moral agency.
epronovost Wrote:Furhtermore, you have stated that God help those who share his moral agency and agree with him and doesn't help those who don't. In that case, he doesn't give a choice, he present you a false choice. A false choice is when one option is clearly and demonstrably ridiculously more advantageous than another. For exemple: «Alla would you like this piece of delicious birthday cake or would you prefer a violent and forceful sodomie administered by 425 pounds smelly wrestler?». Saying that this was a choice would be horribly dishonest unless since you will certainly take option one, unless I sent my best friend to tell you that a violent and forceful sodomie administered by 425 pounds smelly wrestler is actually a code phrase for $15 000 cash. Then, if it happen my best friend that I sned was actually liying and you would get the forceful sodomie even though you thought it would be $15 000 then you can understand how sick your God's system is, because its exactly that.
Sure, that is very sick system. Before I tell you about true and real God's system I want to ask you this:

let's say I tell you: epronovost, there is life and there is its opposition death. Questions:
1)what would you choose: life or death?
2)are there more oppostits of life besides death so you may choose?

Another example:
epronovost, there is happiness and its opposition misery. Questions:
1)what would you choose: happiness or misery?
2)are the more opposites of happiness besides misery so you may choose?

epronovost Wrote:Now my new questions:
1) Why and how are Gods immortal?
They can not be destroyed: neither their physical bodies nor their spirits.

epronovost Wrote:How do you kow this?
I don't have perfect knowledge of this. But I believe that these revelations from God are true. We can't have perfect knowledge of God in this life. If we do then:

1)there is no more room for learning
2)we can not be forgiven if we make mistakes because when we have perfect knowledge and make evil moral choice then we reject eternal life and we know and understand it very well. Then this is the end of the road. But when we have faith and make evil moral choice or mistakes God will have mercy. Because God understands why for some of us it is hard to have faith. But still we can be tested even when we don't have faith.

epronovost Wrote:2) How can a spirit be destroyed? (what can damage a spirit? )
According to revelations only evil spirits can be destroyed. They become what they were long time ago in eternity: un-organized spirit matter. THey chose to be destroyed. God can not destroy spirit of those who accepted His plan in pre-mortal life. If He did it meant that He took away moral agency. It would be evil. He would stop being God.
epronovost Wrote:Also, can they be injured? Can a spirit be brough back from the dead?
No, once spirit becomes an un-organized matter he or she can not be restored. They had their chances. I don't know if spirit can be injured because there is no revelation about it. I share with only with what I believe are revelations from God. And if there is a revelation then I just don't know about it.
epronovost Wrote:3) How do you know demon and devils don't have this power? Why can't they travel to where the Gods and unborn children are?
From revelations that God gave. I believe that those revelations are true. They can't enter celestial kingdom(heaven) because they are not allowed.

epronovost Wrote:4) How do you know that Gods keep to themselves all the time?
I don't understand this question. What does it mean "they keep to themselves all the time"? is there any other way to ask the same question?

epronovost Wrote:5) What are the eternal laws? Are they descriptive laws like gravity or prescriptive laws like do not murder?
Both. It is natural and moral laws. These laws are eternal because they always exist from eternity to eternity. God/Gods know these laws and they obey moral laws. They also know how to use natural laws for their own purposes.

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18-12-2015, 07:44 AM (This post was last modified: 18-12-2015 12:54 PM by epronovost.)
RE: In Uncharted Lands with Alla
It seems you didn't understood some of my questions, so let me rephrase them.

If I hold in cell a dangerous psychotic murderer, decide some day to let him out and give him a weapon. The dangerous psychotic murderer committed a crime. I knew what was going to happen. I had the power to stop or prevent but chose not to do so. Could you explain to me why am I completely innocent in that scenario?

Could you please explain to me in your own word what is a bias in the context of a moral decision making process?

Could you explain to me in your own words the difference between a choice and a false choice?

Who made those revelations and how can we assess if they are indeed true? Any man can say he received divine revelation since we can lie and demons could also disguise themselves in gods to influence us.

PS: in post 33, you mentioned that demons are gods that don't have body. In the next one you state that gods are immortal. Why aren't demons immortal? Plants don't have flesh, bones and blood and are alive and be destroyed. Why does a body without blood cannot be destroyed? What happen to the heart which is made 90% of blood? Does that means that Gods are heartless (drum roll)?

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18-12-2015, 02:32 PM
RE: In Uncharted Lands with Alla
(18-12-2015 07:44 AM)epronovost Wrote:  If I hold in cell a dangerous psychotic murderer, decide some day to let him out and give him a weapon. The dangerous psychotic murderer committed a crime. I knew what was going to happen. I had the power to stop or prevent but chose not to do so. Could you explain to me why am I completely innocent in that scenario?
You are not completely innocent in this scenario.
But how about this scenario?
Criminal(a thief) is released after he spent complete time in jail. Later after release criminal comes to you and says: "if you rob the bank you are going to be rich, why don't you try?" . He doesn't force you against your will to do this. He is not planning to do this with you and he doesn't want you to share money with him. He just hates you and he wants you to become miserable like him when you go to jail. But you love the idea and choose to rob the bank. So, you did it. Could you explain to me why those who released that thief are not completely innocent in this scenario?
(18-12-2015 07:44 AM)epronovost Wrote:  Could you explain to me in your own words the difference between a choice and a false choice?
I don't know what false choice is. There are choices between good and evil. Or there are choices between good and better. Or between good and the best.
(18-12-2015 07:44 AM)epronovost Wrote:  Who made those revelations and how can we assess if they are indeed true?
I hope you understand that I am not trying to convince you to believe anything. We just discuss LDS Doctrine and you are trying to be in my shoe for a while out of curiosity.
I believe that God made these revelations to His prophets. Prophets share with us this information. How can we know they are true? So, there is no way I can check if some of Gods revelations are true. But I told you that there is this mysterious convincing power I call the Holly Spirit. When this power(Spirit) convinces me it is true I can't doubt it. I just can't. I am strongly convinced.
(18-12-2015 07:44 AM)epronovost Wrote:  Any man can say he received divine revelation since we can lie and demons could also disguise themselves in gods to influence us.
True, very true.
(18-12-2015 07:44 AM)epronovost Wrote:  Could you please explain to me in your own word what is a bias in the context of a moral decision making process?
I am not sure I understand. Did you mean to say "basis" instead of "bias"?
So, what is a basis of moral decision making process?
The basis is set of rules/laws. In some societies it is moral to scalp people. In others it is immoral. In some societies it is moral to have same sex marriage, in some it is immoral.
So, sets of rules, laws is this basis.
God gives His sets of rules/laws. If He didn't give laws it wouldn't be any moral making decisions before God. Any choice would be neutral before God and it wouldn't be MORAL agency - choice between good and evil.
God gave His set of rules so we can have moral agency.
(18-12-2015 07:44 AM)epronovost Wrote:  PS: in post 33, you mentioned that demons are gods that don't have body. In the next one you state that gods are immortal. Why aren't demons immortal?
I mentioned that demons are fallen gods. Fallen gods will be destroyed. I call it "re-cycled". Yes, Gods support recycling. Thumbsup
(18-12-2015 07:44 AM)epronovost Wrote:  Plants don't have flesh, bones and blood and are alive and be destroyed.
Yes, because according to the Bible and according to LDS Doctrine we live in fallen world now. In garden of Eden no plant would be destroyed. In celestial kingdom(heaven) no plants can not be destroyed.
After Adam's fall everything on earth now is in fallen or mortal state.
(18-12-2015 07:44 AM)epronovost Wrote:  Why does a body without blood cannot be destroyed?
In this world it can be destroyed. But in the world with different glory nothing can be destroyed according to the revelations.
(18-12-2015 07:44 AM)epronovost Wrote:  What happen to the heart which is made 90% of blood? Does that means that Gods are heartless (drum roll)?
Gods' have hearts. God's physical bodies are "flesh and bone". So, hearts of mortal beings have blood. Hearts of immortal beings do not have blood but according to LDS Doctrine(revelations from God) it pumps different substance. We call it "spirit".

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18-12-2015, 03:02 PM (This post was last modified: 18-12-2015 06:43 PM by epronovost.)
RE: In Uncharted Lands with Alla
When a criminal is released from prison, we assume and tried to rehabilitate him so that he doesn't become a danger again to society. We also monitor him for a few years after his release (conditional liberation). If the criminal was especially dangerous, sometime, we never liberate him. This system sometime fails because we are human, we fail from time to time. Aren't your gods immortal being with ultimate wisdom? What did they do to rehabilitate the demons? Are the demons monitored? Why should I treat god less severely than humans especially that demons are by nature impossible to rehabilitate and made of pure hatred by your own very definition? A demon is even more evil than Hitler and Stalin, yet gods release them and send them in a world where their own children are vulnerable and this is somehow not going to have any effect on their moral agency and their capacity to explore the world and make their choices?

Could you please type on google false choice definition. I think it would help you to understand that concept, because I think your doctrine is imposing you one and would like to have your opinion on it. On my question I indeed meant bias not basis. A basis is a norm/foundation. A bias, in that context, is something that throw our judgement off sometime without us noticing it.

Since all your world and understanding steams from revelation from gods and spirits which might be false, which might be demons (even worse), why isn't trust the must important value in your system, well over hard work, charity and integrity? It's the very basis of your entire belief system and central in your interpretation of our common reality.

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20-12-2015, 11:53 PM
RE: In Uncharted Lands with Alla
I am a little busy. I will respond tomorrow.

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