In Which The Forum Helps Pops With Critical Thinking
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03-10-2015, 07:06 PM
RE: Ask some questions about evolution here.
(03-10-2015 07:03 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(03-10-2015 04:46 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Change could technically be reversion to a more primitive state. Not exactly observable through evolution.

That would be one kind of change, not the only one.

Quote:Also, if life in general advances or changes to accommodate and flourish within its environment or habitat then why can we not say that the advancement of life in general or the change of life in general as a means for it to be most efficient within its habitat is evolution?

Life in general does not advance, it evolves to be more fit in its environment.
Environments change.

Quote:Why does there have to be separation of every species as opposed to just the advancement of life in general?

Because species are isolated gene pools that prosper or fail.

There is no "advancement of life".
If we did not advance(evolve) then we would be extinct already.
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03-10-2015, 07:10 PM
RE: Ask some questions about evolution here.
(03-10-2015 07:06 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(03-10-2015 07:03 PM)Chas Wrote:  That would be one kind of change, not the only one.


Life in general does not advance, it evolves to be more fit in its environment.
Environments change.


Because species are isolated gene pools that prosper or fail.

There is no "advancement of life".
If we did not advance(evolve) then we would be extinct already.

"Advance" is a value judgement, absent in evolution. If we did not "adapt" (change) we would be extinct. Your "advance" is your value slapped onto a valueless system.

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03-10-2015, 07:13 PM
RE: Ask some questions about evolution here.
(03-10-2015 07:06 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(03-10-2015 07:03 PM)Chas Wrote:  That would be one kind of change, not the only one.


Life in general does not advance, it evolves to be more fit in its environment.
Environments change.


Because species are isolated gene pools that prosper or fail.

There is no "advancement of life".
If we did not advance(evolve) then we would be extinct already.

Evolving isn't advancing and having "primitive" forms in the manner at which you are speaking.

You have a world view, I get that. But your not using any reason or evidence to back up your continual view of there being defined order/form or a dualistic good/evil balance to these views. You are just spinning in circles of woo. Only your human labels and evaluations on these things are making them the way you talk about them. They don't naturally exist in these manners.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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03-10-2015, 07:17 PM
RE: Ask some questions about evolution here.
(03-10-2015 07:10 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(03-10-2015 07:06 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  If we did not advance(evolve) then we would be extinct already.

"Advance" is a value judgement, absent in evolution. If we did not "adapt" (change) we would be extinct. Your "advance" is your value slapped onto a valueless system.
To change and evolve is to advance in time if nothing else.
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03-10-2015, 07:27 PM
RE: Ask some questions about evolution here.
(02-10-2015 10:18 PM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  
(02-10-2015 08:24 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Can evolution be seen as the advancment of life as a whole in its changing environment?

Change is a better word for advancement. Modern sloths are less advance to prehistoric sloths.

(02-10-2015 08:24 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Can survival of the fittest be attained without destruction and manipulation of other beings or species?

Depends. Hyenas and lions are in the same niche, but are not to the point of destruction, yet some animals have gone extinct via other animals. Again it depends.


(02-10-2015 08:24 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Can we advance further peacefully with other life in unity with that life for the advancent of existence in general?

This is not a question about evolution.

Can you list some beneficial mutations. I was reading an online argument (one could hardly call it a debate) between a religious nut an atheist. The theist was stating that there are no beneficial mutations. That sounded stupid to me, I mean, why wouldn't there be beneficial mutations.

Another dumb but curious question. Do each of us carry mutations of one sort and another?

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03-10-2015, 07:39 PM
RE: Ask some questions about evolution here.
(03-10-2015 07:27 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  
(02-10-2015 10:18 PM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  Change is a better word for advancement. Modern sloths are less advance to prehistoric sloths.


Depends. Hyenas and lions are in the same niche, but are not to the point of destruction, yet some animals have gone extinct via other animals. Again it depends.



This is not a question about evolution.

Can you list some beneficial mutations. I was reading an online argument (one could hardly call it a debate) between a religious nut an atheist. The theist was stating that there are no beneficial mutations. That sounded stupid to me, I mean, why wouldn't there be beneficial mutations.

Another dumb but curious question. Do each of us carry mutations of one sort and another?
I have a beneficial mutation in the form of a giant cell tumor that actively holds my right arm to my body and allows for generally normal use. It's actually stronger and more fortified than my left arm. Don't think that really qualifies in the context you were looking for though. Still a beneficial mutation though.
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03-10-2015, 08:12 PM
RE: Ask some questions about evolution here.
(03-10-2015 07:17 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(03-10-2015 07:10 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  "Advance" is a value judgement, absent in evolution. If we did not "adapt" (change) we would be extinct. Your "advance" is your value slapped onto a valueless system.
To change and evolve is to advance in time if nothing else.

That use has a different meaning than you originally used. You did not mean that and you know it.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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03-10-2015, 08:27 PM
RE: Ask some questions about evolution here.
(03-10-2015 08:12 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(03-10-2015 07:17 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  To change and evolve is to advance in time if nothing else.

That use has a different meaning than you originally used. You did not mean that and you know it.
No I did not. You are correct. Evolution is advancement of life. Without it we would not no advancement of time because we would be extinct. People saying that evolving and changing is not synonymous with advancing are needlessly splitting hairs for the sake of argument though. Not too productive in terms of conversation with a point though.
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03-10-2015, 08:51 PM
RE: Ask some questions about evolution here.
(03-10-2015 08:27 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(03-10-2015 08:12 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  That use has a different meaning than you originally used. You did not mean that and you know it.
No I did not. You are correct. Evolution is advancement of life. Without it we would not no advancement of time because we would be extinct. People saying that evolving and changing is not synonymous with advancing are needlessly splitting hairs for the sake of argument though. Not too productive in terms of conversation with a point though.

Using inaccurate words is no help to the conversation, but it does highlight your ignorance and/or misunderstanding of evolution.

It is not 'splitting hairs' to accurately convey the basics of evolution.

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03-10-2015, 08:53 PM
RE: Ask some questions about evolution here.
(03-10-2015 08:51 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(03-10-2015 08:27 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  No I did not. You are correct. Evolution is advancement of life. Without it we would not no advancement of time because we would be extinct. People saying that evolving and changing is not synonymous with advancing are needlessly splitting hairs for the sake of argument though. Not too productive in terms of conversation with a point though.

Using inaccurate words is no help to the conversation, but it does highlight your ignorance and/or misunderstanding of evolution.

It is not 'splitting hairs' to accurately convey the basics of evolution.
So to you the advancement of an organism through time and its habitat is not evolution. Got it. Duly noted. Still don't agree though.
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