In a world without suffering would religion exist?
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22-11-2013, 01:03 AM
In a world without suffering would religion exist?
This isn't a thread about whether or not God is omnibenevolent. It is a thread about humanity. Please imagine a world with intelligent beings like us but those beings are incapable of suffering. In such a world would those beings create religion? Lets say in that world those beings come to believe in the existence of God, would those beings still create religions to worship that God?
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22-11-2013, 01:14 AM
RE: In a world without suffering would religion exist?
(22-11-2013 01:03 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  This isn't a thread about whether or not God is omnibenevolent. It is a thread about humanity. Please imagine a world with intelligent beings like us but those beings are incapable of suffering. In such a world would those beings create religion? Lets say in that world those beings come to believe in the existence of God, would those beings still create religions to worship that God?

Does death, ignorance, and credulity still exist in this hypothetical world? If so then yes, the possibility for religion (the institutionalization of bad explanations) still exists.

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22-11-2013, 01:20 AM
RE: In a world without suffering would religion exist?
(22-11-2013 01:14 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(22-11-2013 01:03 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  This isn't a thread about whether or not God is omnibenevolent. It is a thread about humanity. Please imagine a world with intelligent beings like us but those beings are incapable of suffering. In such a world would those beings create religion? Lets say in that world those beings come to believe in the existence of God, would those beings still create religions to worship that God?

Does death, ignorance, and credulity still exist in this hypothetical world? If so then yes, the possibility for religion (the institutionalization of bad explanations) still exists.

Sure, but there would be no anxiety or fear of dying in this hypothetical world as that would qualify as suffering. I don't think ignorance and credulity qualify as suffering.
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22-11-2013, 01:25 AM
RE: In a world without suffering would religion exist?
It would be hard to argue that they wouldn't, but maybe ego is unique to our brand of humans.

Other evolved intelligent beings may work outward logic from a materialism view and treat the unknown the same way we (most of us) see QM,
Jumping to an improbable conclusion there is a Deity could well be unique to humans.

Theism is to believe what other people claim, Atheism is to ask "why should I".
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22-11-2013, 01:26 AM
RE: In a world without suffering would religion exist?
So a world exactly like ours, but without suffering? I think that without a significant explanation of our purpose or the meaning of life and the fact that we still die, would create religion.

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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22-11-2013, 01:36 AM
RE: In a world without suffering would religion exist?
(22-11-2013 01:20 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(22-11-2013 01:14 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Does death, ignorance, and credulity still exist in this hypothetical world? If so then yes, the possibility for religion (the institutionalization of bad explanations) still exists.

Sure, but there would be no anxiety or fear of dying in this hypothetical world as that would qualify as suffering. I don't think ignorance and credulity qualify as suffering.

It would be easy to choose death without suffering in the word we live in now--but most people do not choose to kill themselves with morphine or some other means without suffering. The uncertainty and need of an intelligent being for an explanation of death would still lead us to religion.

But I question the assumption in this world as anything that would be practical. The biggest problem with this world is that the way we are now, our morality and our predilection to believe credulous things, and our intelligence are all byproducts of our evolutionary development. This evolutionary development necessarily involves a tremendous amount of suffering in elimination of less favorable genetic traits. Take away the suffering, and you take away our humanity and what we are.
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22-11-2013, 01:38 AM
RE: In a world without suffering would religion exist?
(22-11-2013 01:25 AM)sporehux Wrote:  It would be hard to argue that they wouldn't, but maybe ego is unique to our brand of humans.

The utility of religion comes from fear of suffering. Eliminate suffering and you eliminate the fear of suffering and thus you eliminate the utility of religion.

In the hypothetical world people would still use the explanation...."God dunnit"....which is not religion. Religion is praying and worshiping and all that. It is not simply having a belief in God or claiming God as an explanation.
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22-11-2013, 01:38 AM
RE: In a world without suffering would religion exist?
(22-11-2013 01:20 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Sure, but there would be no anxiety or fear of dying in this hypothetical world as that would qualify as suffering. I don't think ignorance and credulity qualify as suffering.

Ignorance and credulity easily cause suffering. Regardless...

Religion was our first attempt at science, government, and health care. So long as there are things we do not know and our minds and senses are as prone to errors as they are, then I see no reason why there shouldn't be a proportion of the population that fills in the gaps in their understanding with bad reasoning and their imagination.

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22-11-2013, 01:58 AM (This post was last modified: 22-11-2013 02:05 AM by sporehux.)
RE: In a world without suffering would religion exist?
(22-11-2013 01:38 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  The utility of religion comes from fear of suffering. Eliminate suffering and you eliminate the fear of suffering and thus you eliminate the utility of religion.

In the hypothetical world people would still use the explanation...."God dunnit"....which is not religion. Religion is praying and worshiping and all that. It is not simply having a belief in God or claiming God as an explanation.


I think without mans EGO, then suffering would just be considered the norm, look around at every living thing, they all suffer the horrors of natural selection, even a mountain suffers erosion.

Human EGO, turned a basic natural process into a, I'm too important to be subject to this !!.

Ergo, EGO could make an UNsuffered race of beings invent mystical reasons for what they do not understand.

Theism is to believe what other people claim, Atheism is to ask "why should I".
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22-11-2013, 02:09 AM
RE: In a world without suffering would religion exist?
(22-11-2013 01:38 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(22-11-2013 01:20 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Sure, but there would be no anxiety or fear of dying in this hypothetical world as that would qualify as suffering. I don't think ignorance and credulity qualify as suffering.

Ignorance and credulity easily cause suffering. Regardless...

Religion was our first attempt at science, government, and health care. So long as there are things we do not know and our minds and senses are as prone to errors as they are, then I see no reason why there shouldn't be a proportion of the population that fills in the gaps in their understanding with bad reasoning and their imagination.

In this hypothetical world ignorance and credulity either do not exist or if they do they do not cause suffering. Suffering can't exists in this hypothetical world. The point of this discussion is to explore the question would religion exist in a world without suffering.
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