In a world without suffering would religion exist?
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22-11-2013, 02:14 AM
RE: In a world without suffering would religion exist?
(22-11-2013 01:38 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  The utility of religion comes from fear of suffering. Eliminate suffering and you eliminate the fear of suffering and thus you eliminate the utility of religion.

In the hypothetical world people would still use the explanation...."God dunnit"....which is not religion. Religion is praying and worshiping and all that. It is not simply having a belief in God or claiming God as an explanation.

The utility can come from control, or providing solace and explanations. Just because the three classical monotheism's emphasize fear and suffering, does not mean it's the be-all-end-all of religion.

Look at Scientology for an example of a godless modern religion. It is that really had to imagine a religion built around the stars in the sky or the weather, sans any god concept, that was built around trying to explain or utilize them?

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22-11-2013, 02:16 AM (This post was last modified: 22-11-2013 07:03 AM by Hafnof.)
RE: In a world without suffering would religion exist?
Another utility of religion is to fill gaps in our knowledge with just so answers. Does the suffering free society ever develop science? Necessity is the mother of invention, so perhaps not. Perhaps they are happy enough to remain ignorant and therefore continue to find utility in religion to seemingly answer those hard questions.

But you say this world is without suffering, so perhaps ignorance truly is bliss and this society finds no reason either to seek true knowledge of to cover the gaps with falsehood.

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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22-11-2013, 02:26 AM
RE: In a world without suffering would religion exist?
Regardless of the suffering and and death aspect.
Two or more primitive cultures would probably 1up each other to the point of claiming imaginary all powerfull beings on their team.
And by having one true God leaves nothing more to trump.
They win , game over.

Theism is to believe what other people claim, Atheism is to ask "why should I".
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22-11-2013, 02:40 AM
RE: In a world without suffering would religion exist?
I think suffering and conflict is part of the human condition, religion began as an explanation for things that happened that they couldnt explain, and spread to give teachings on how to live better, then it was misused by people to control populations (I am still talking pre christianity) and to generate conflict, where none really existed but to further the greed and power of those in charge.

Corruption, greed and aggression have shaped civilization to what we have now, religion has been but a tool to achieve this. We are approaching an age of enlightenment, where science has given us enough explanations of what is happening to allow us to no longer require the 'teachings' or 'guidance' of religion.

Corruption, greed and aggression are forever present, however with greater education and knowledge we may be able to promote humility, generosity and empathy, as of now, religions create a barrier to the development of these beneficial traits, and as is being seen globally, many are becoming aware of this and beginning to look at the world anew.

So, in a world without suffering, religion would probably not exist, and the world would remain without suffering as religions unintended (or intended) side effect is generating the suffering that the world could do without
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22-11-2013, 08:23 AM
RE: In a world without suffering would religion exist?
Dang, Heywood... A+ discussion.

Gonna have to think about this.

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22-11-2013, 08:55 AM
RE: In a world without suffering would religion exist?
I don't think suffering was the creation of religion. I think many other factors came into play as there has been many gods for many reasons.

Whilst I believe religion has shaped many of our society's morals to how they are today I do think that if religion had not been thought up that eventually we would of made the same social contracts that are around today.

For no matter how much I use these symbols, to describe symptoms of my existence.
You are your own emphasis.
So I say nothing.

-Bemore.
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22-11-2013, 09:17 AM
RE: In a world without suffering would religion exist?
This "suffering" stuff is a philosophical invention devised by beings with too much time on their hands. Tongue

Even getting into the discussion implies that I'm not hunting for food, seeking shelter, nor on the run from predators.

"World" also implies a closed system in which competition for resources creates winners and losers. Losers obviously suffer, but so too winners when expectations are not met. Furthermore, simulation of future is an essential part of the human condition, from such arises faith, and from that, religion. There are far more elements to religion than primitive science and fear, for instance there is also socialization and purpose. The will to live beyond mere survival inspires the need for purpose, and for many, the self-realization necessary to devise individual purpose is lacking.

Yes, in other words. Thumbsup

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22-11-2013, 01:42 PM
RE: In a world without suffering would religion exist?
(22-11-2013 09:17 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  The will to live beyond mere survival inspires the need for purpose, and for many, the self-realization necessary to devise individual purpose is lacking.

Yes, in other words. Thumbsup

So you are saying, in a world without suffering people would still be asking questions like, "Why am I here?" or "What is the meaning of life?". I agree. However in a world without suffering dwelling on these questions wouldn't cause anxiety like it does for some in our world.

People worship God because they want something from God. Can you give an example of something someone wants from God that isn't tied to suffering?
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22-11-2013, 01:46 PM
RE: In a world without suffering would religion exist?
(22-11-2013 01:03 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  This isn't a thread about whether or not God is omnibenevolent. It is a thread about humanity. Please imagine a world with intelligent beings like us but those beings are incapable of suffering. In such a world would those beings create religion? Lets say in that world those beings come to believe in the existence of God, would those beings still create religions to worship that God?
Religion = suffering. Therefore, no. Big Grin
Somebody had to say it.

"Religion has caused more misery to all of mankind in every stage of human history than any other single idea." --Madalyn Murray O'Hair
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22-11-2013, 01:55 PM
RE: In a world without suffering would religion exist?
(22-11-2013 01:42 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(22-11-2013 09:17 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  The will to live beyond mere survival inspires the need for purpose, and for many, the self-realization necessary to devise individual purpose is lacking.

Yes, in other words. Thumbsup

So you are saying, in a world without suffering people would still be asking questions like, "Why am I here?" or "What is the meaning of life?". I agree. However in a world without suffering dwelling on these questions wouldn't cause anxiety like it does for some in our world.

People worship God because they want something from God. Can you give an example of something someone wants from God that isn't tied to suffering?

Didn't you just answer your own question? Consider

As to my "gods," the only thing I want from the LC is for it to not come back. Big Grin
The kinda things I want from my Gwynnies is to keep on keeping on, and to not make herself ill again with some stupid fad diet. Angry

The kinda thing people want from god could be along those lines, to know they're not alone, to know that there is a purpose... Oh, one thing we've glossed over, whadda mean by incapable of suffering? Consider

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