In regards to former Atheist.
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26-04-2015, 05:13 AM
RE: In regards to former Atheist.
“Of all the world’s wonders, which is the most wonderful? That no man, though he sees others dying all around him, believes that he himself will die.” — Yudhishtara answers Dharma, from “The Mahabharata”
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26-04-2015, 05:41 AM
RE: In regards to former Atheist.
(26-04-2015 05:05 AM)dimaniac Wrote:  
(25-04-2015 07:42 PM)Dom Wrote:  I don't think it's possible to go from atheist to theist.

People who claim to have done that either don't know what an atheist is or are just lying.
Maybe I was not true atheist but I was atleast apatheist. Everything changed after realization of my own mortality. Death is too scary to accept it.

Fear is a powerful motivator, however when I was presented with things like Pascal's wager, I realized this was a dishonest sales pitch, fear is a dishonest way to con someone to belief.
When you realize the utter physical impossibility of hell and then you realize this is a New Testament creation with no basis, the New Testament concept of death isn't the same as the Old Testament.
It's apparent the concept of an afterlife is simply made up by the biblical myth makers as a way to scare people into believing.
As far as I was concerned, I will not be coerced with fear into believing something, that is not a legitimate path to belief and I will not be afraid to call BS on those that try to manipulate people with fear.
Fear of hell is no different than being afraid of monsters under your bed as a kid, when you turn the light on and look, you realize there's nothing there.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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26-04-2015, 05:46 AM
RE: In regards to former Atheist.
(26-04-2015 05:05 AM)dimaniac Wrote:  
(25-04-2015 07:42 PM)Dom Wrote:  I don't think it's possible to go from atheist to theist.

People who claim to have done that either don't know what an atheist is or are just lying.
Maybe I was not true atheist but I was atleast apatheist. Everything changed after realization of my own mortality. Death is too scary to accept it.

What's so scary in death? It's nonexistence not fires of damnation which religions would like us to believe.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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26-04-2015, 06:00 AM
RE: In regards to former Atheist.
(26-04-2015 05:46 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  
(26-04-2015 05:05 AM)dimaniac Wrote:  Maybe I was not true atheist but I was atleast apatheist. Everything changed after realization of my own mortality. Death is too scary to accept it.

What's so scary in death?
It's thanatophobia, hard to explain to people who never experienced it. Try bestgore or liveleak maybe you will understand
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26-04-2015, 06:07 AM
RE: In regards to former Atheist.
(26-04-2015 06:00 AM)dimaniac Wrote:  
(26-04-2015 05:46 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  What's so scary in death?
It's thanatophobia, hard to explain to people who never experienced it. Try bestgore or liveleak maybe you will understand

Isn't phobia something irrational? As for bestgore I am not interested in watching shocking or graphic representation of suffering.

And I certainly do not understand - being theist will not save you from death, or from suffering.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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26-04-2015, 06:13 AM
RE: In regards to former Atheist.
(26-04-2015 06:07 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  
(26-04-2015 06:00 AM)dimaniac Wrote:  It's thanatophobia, hard to explain to people who never experienced it. Try bestgore or liveleak maybe you will understand

Isn't phobia something irrational?
There are many irrational things that atheists believe(like guaranteed longterm survival of humanity)
Quote:As for bestgore I am not interested in watching shocking or graphic representation of suffering.
Then you ignore reality just like theists

Quote:And I certainly do not understand - being theist will not save you from death
If god exists then death just transition to afterlife and is not scary
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26-04-2015, 06:15 AM
RE: In regards to former Atheist.
(26-04-2015 06:13 AM)dimaniac Wrote:  
(26-04-2015 06:07 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  Isn't phobia something irrational?
There are many irrational things that atheists believe(like guaranteed longterm survival of humanity)

Quote:As for bestgore I am not interested in watching shocking or graphic representation of suffering.
Then you ignore reality just like theists

Quote:And I certainly do not understand - being theist will not save you from death
If god exists then death just transition to afterlife and is not scary

Spare me your nonsense. It seems that your negative reputation rating is well earned.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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26-04-2015, 06:35 AM
RE: In regards to former Atheist.
(25-04-2015 12:44 PM)Commonsensei Wrote:  I've have had a few discussion with people that say they used to be Atheists. Most of the time I find this hard to believe.

Most of the times it deserves the same credit as the I have a lot of black or gay friends line when some horrendous bigotry is on the horizon.
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26-04-2015, 06:40 AM
RE: In regards to former Atheist.
(25-04-2015 02:45 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  
(25-04-2015 12:44 PM)Commonsensei Wrote:  I've have had a few discussion with people that say they used to be Atheists. Most of the time I find this hard to believe. The more I talk with them I feel that either they just don’t know what Atheist means. Or that they are simply say this because they want to make you think “Oh if he found god maybe he knows something I don’t. I should go back to believing.”

Has anyone had these feelings?

Has anyone ran into similar situations?

Or is there any Theists that are just that. A person that was a former Atheist. Maybe you could elaborate?

It comes down to a great sales tactic, know your audience afterall right? How inspiring is that story to the believers? "I used to be an atheist, then god spoke to me" or "I used to be an atheist then I had a personal experience, and knew it was real!"...or some such BS story.

My opinion of course. Here is my thoughts on this...

If he/she was the type of atheist that just simply didn't believe in a god, had never really researched it, studied theology, philosophy, history...just meh, I don't believe. That type of person I can buy having a personal experience and thinking suddenly...oh my...I just avoided death by 5 seconds etc etc....this MUST mean god is real...or they get sucked in a myriad of other ways....

What I DO NOT believe is someone is an INFORMED atheist, educated in theology, knowledgeable of all of the fabrication, pseudepigrapha, interpolations, allegorical stories, parables and lack of any substantiating evidence and suddenly decides to toss all of that aside and embrace what he/she KNOWS is absolute BS...that I dont buy.

Speaking of sales tactics, I wrote below on a post previously, reread it, liked it, kept it, and I think it is a valid spin on how to sell religion....I can sell milk to a cow, so if I was still a christian ordained minister of the southern baptist faith, i could sell the snake oil quite well...

..................................
sales tactic

It comes down to sales tactics. If you had a valid, obtainable, real product to offer the world as a means for living a better life, you could trot it out, point to it, briefly cover its features and it would sell it self.

If you have an invalid, fabricated, made-up transcendental product, which is invisible, and offer it to the world as a means for living a better life, you will have to embrace a lot of aggressive slippery used car salesman tactics to try to convince the gullible, elderly and stupid it is legit.

"But how do I know it is real?"

No worries, it just takes faith, belief in the unknown, and once you die, you will see it in all of its glory, now just sign here, here and here.

"But I don't see the product"

Exactly! isn't it marvelous? It is so wonderful, the creator of it makes it visible to only a select few who sign up, make the full payment, and believe...now sign here, here and here.

"But I read in consumers reports that previous buyers have figured out it is all a lie...a fake product".

Of course they said that, that is the "other guy" working hard to steal away our perspective customers...you don't want to buy from that guy...he planted that evidence to deceive people, now don't you worry your pretty little head with all of those logical questions, you are just cluttering your mind with the inconsequential, that is the other guy messing with your head...now, if you sign right now, I will throw in an ocean front condo with an executive suite for ever and ever, rent free, but you don't get the keys until you die.

"I have to die first to get this product?"

Minor detail, have you read the book? did you see the brochure?.....

The pitchmen are the apologists, when I started seriously questioning my religious beliefs it was because of science, I understood the implications of evolution, an old Earth, etc. The idea that the bible was fundamentally in error was always in the back of my head, that realization didn't go away when I would get on creationist sites that tried to explain away the geological evidence with the flood.

I could see that their explanations wouldn't totally address the questions I had, when they start conspiracy mongering about "evolutionary" scientists, I grew to become extremely distrustful of what they had to say.

I realized when they appeal to "wrong assumptions" that scientists make that they were desperate, they really didn't have answers. That's when I went past the apologist's arguments and started getting honest answers based on evidence from real scientists instead of pseudo-scientists. That's when their arguments fell like the house of cards that they were and I could see it. They; and the bible, were wrong, spectacularly wrong!

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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26-04-2015, 06:47 AM
RE: In regards to former Atheist.
(26-04-2015 06:35 AM)abaris Wrote:  
(25-04-2015 12:44 PM)Commonsensei Wrote:  I've have had a few discussion with people that say they used to be Atheists. Most of the time I find this hard to believe.

Most of the times it deserves the same credit as the I have a lot of black or gay friends line when some horrendous bigotry is on the horizon.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baal_teshuva_movement
Yep, jews are shifty
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