In the beggining.....
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06-02-2012, 07:21 AM (This post was last modified: 06-02-2012 07:35 AM by bemore.)
In the beggining.....
Soooooooooo apparently "god" created everything.......which makes me think if there was a creator then what created it???

What created the creator that created the creator......Confused

Can any of us actually wrap our heads fully round infinity, I dont think I have ever met anybody or anything that can do this.

Does there even have to be a beggining.......caus if you take away the concept of time that us humans all live by then I suppose that image fades away (well it does for me anyway)

Yes there is the theory of the "big bang" and yes apparently galaxys are moving away from each other.......but certain galaxys are colliding slowly with each other also. To work out truely if things are properly moving away wouldnt you need a point of reference........Like a beggining point where everything was meant to have started. Would that not then give you a better idea if everything was "expanding" outwards.

Supermassive blackholes at the center of each galaxy......huge massive expanses that are slowly sucking everything within them including other black holes......in an infinite amount of time I wonder if there may come a point when all light and all matter is sucked into these supermassive blackholes so there is nothing left to consume except other supermassive black holes.....then what???

How paradoxal that everything could eventually and infintily be contained in one huge supermassive black hole......that would run out of things to consume and that may actually consume itself........then what would that leave???

A lot of what ifs and buts.

Im stoned and rabbiting on Blush

For no matter how much I use these symbols, to describe symptoms of my existence.
You are your own emphasis.
So I say nothing.

-Bemore.
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06-02-2012, 09:09 AM
RE: In the beggining.....
That has always been my biggest problem with debating the religious.

They always seem confident that saying god did it, is somehow the end of all questions and not just the beginning of them.

Saying god did it, doesn't do anything for me, but inspire a whole new line of questioning.

"I think of myself as an intelligent, sensitive human being with the soul of a clown which always forces me to blow it at the most important moments." -Jim Morrison
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06-02-2012, 11:41 AM (This post was last modified: 06-02-2012 11:46 AM by jknightx.)
RE: In the beggining.....
(06-02-2012 09:09 AM)lucradis Wrote:  That has always been my biggest problem with debating the religious.

They always seem confident that saying god did it, is somehow the end of all questions and not just the beginning of them.

Saying god did it, doesn't do anything for me, but inspire a whole new line of questioning.

yup, the god did it is there end all trump card. So I always say, so this magic invisible god did it, poof! with his god magic? they usaully say "yes,something like that" and I reply,aren't you a little old to believe in magic? then I usaully get yelled at and told I am going burn in eternal hell fire . lol

Give a man a fish ,you feed him for a day, teach a man to fish ,you feed him for a life time,give a man religion,he will die praying for a fish
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06-02-2012, 02:25 PM
RE: In the beggining.....
This is where the Consmological Argument of first cause drives me nuts. They can say the Universe had to have a cause but won't accept that by this logic their creator also had to have a cause. Oh, I forgot, He's beyond space and time. Shoot they got me again.

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06-02-2012, 02:48 PM
RE: In the beggining.....
If there is an eternity, then there is no beginning and no end.

Eternity is eternal.

If one can not grasp the definition of this word, then so much for damning my ass to anywhere for any length of time.

As for the beginning... please, see the shit written above.
______________________

ps... At one point in time just before the big bang, the entire universe, density and all, was compressed to the size of a walnut.
The big bang happened everywhere at once.
Anywhere you are in the universe would be your point of reference and everything would be moving out from that point.
If I continue writing this stuff, you will need to keep smoking whatever you have been smoking.

I think in the end, I just feel like I'm a secular person who has a skeptical eye toward any extraordinary claim, carefully examining any extraordinary evidence before jumping to conclusions. ~ Eric ~ My friend ... who figured it out.
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06-02-2012, 03:09 PM (This post was last modified: 06-02-2012 03:14 PM by bemore.)
RE: In the beggining.....
(06-02-2012 02:48 PM)kim Wrote:  If there is an eternity, then there is no beginning and no end.

Eternity is eternal.

If one can not grasp the definition of this word, then so much for damning my ass to anywhere for any length of time.

As for the beginning... please, see the shit written above.
______________________

ps... At one point in time just before the big bang, the entire universe, density and all, was compressed to the size of a walnut.
The big bang happened everywhere at once.
Anywhere you are in the universe would be your point of reference and everything would be moving out from that point.
If I continue writing this stuff, you will need to keep smoking whatever you have been smoking.

I suppose thats the burning question (god).....Im not denying eternity with no beggining and no end however for some reason everything like you said was thought to of been compressed to the size of a walnut (is that calculated by removing the space between atoms or something???) but something must of caused the universe to become walnut shape.....and going by the rules of eternity whatever caused the walnut doesnt have to signify the beginning.

For no matter how much I use these symbols, to describe symptoms of my existence.
You are your own emphasis.
So I say nothing.

-Bemore.
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06-02-2012, 06:53 PM
RE: In the beggining.....
Some physicists have been known to say they aren't entirely happy with the concept of the 'Big Bang Theory'.
I've always wondered where the 'walnut' came from and what's outside the 'visible' universe? There are so many unanswered questions that we may or may not get to know the answer to. Get's you thinking though - and sometimes can send you a little screwy Big Grin
I've been trying to understand 'particle physics' but with my limited mathematical skills I don't really have much hope - but I still find it fascinating.

We totally need an Astrophysicist on this forum.

Zat, being the physicist, could you possibly shed some light here?

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07-02-2012, 12:34 AM
RE: In the beggining.....
(06-02-2012 07:21 AM)bemore Wrote:  Soooooooooo apparently "god" created everything.......which makes me think if there was a creator then what created it???

Pretty much any start to the universe contains an infinite regress. Even though scientists believe it started with a singularity, nobody knows what the singularity was or where it came from. Of course, just because science doesn't have an answer doesn't mean that a God is perfectly fine to accept in its absence (that's a logical fallacy known as an Argument From Ignorance).

Quote:Does there even have to be a beggining.......caus if you take away the concept of time that us humans all live by then I suppose that image fades away (well it does for me anyway)

No, there doesn't have to be a beginning. Stephen Hawking envisions time as a 3-dimension enclosed manifold like the surface of a sphere, with no beginning or end. This makes a lot more sense than trying to picture "time starting", because in order to create time you logically have to have it already.

Quote:Yes there is the theory of the "big bang" and yes apparently galaxys are moving away from each other.......but certain galaxys are colliding slowly with each other also. To work out truely if things are properly moving away wouldnt you need a point of reference........Like a beggining point where everything was meant to have started. Would that not then give you a better idea if everything was "expanding" outwards.

The problem with locating a "center of the universe" is that the universe is fucking huge. When scientists discuss the universe, they use the term "observable universe", because there's so much that we can't see --- and that includes the center. Plus not everything moves strictly in a line, because planets revolve around suns which revolve around galaxies which revolve around black holes... there are too many things moving in circles, which is why galaxies do collide and why we occasionally observe "blue shift" (stars moving closer to us) rather than "red shift" (stars moving away).

I hate this quote-by-quote shit, but you introduced so many different ideas in your topic that it was difficult to organize them otherwise. It's nice to see that you're spending time thinking about these things, and I hope you delve into them further. Keep up the great work.

My girlfriend is mad at me. Perhaps I shouldn't have tried cooking a stick in her non-stick pan.
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07-02-2012, 12:49 AM
RE: In the beggining.....
You're on the wrong thread for an astrophysicist.
Go here. Listen to Brian for about an hour - he'll tell you lots of cool shit. He's an astrophysicist.
By the way, a few astrophysicists are named Brian. The cool ones are anyway.
But the coolest of the cool astrophysicists, are Rock Gods named Brian. Cool

I think in the end, I just feel like I'm a secular person who has a skeptical eye toward any extraordinary claim, carefully examining any extraordinary evidence before jumping to conclusions. ~ Eric ~ My friend ... who figured it out.
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07-02-2012, 01:05 AM
RE: In the beggining.....
(07-02-2012 12:49 AM)kim Wrote:  You're on the wrong thread for an astrophysicist.
Go here. Listen to Brian for about an hour - he'll tell you lots of cool shit. He's an astrophysicist.
By the way, a few astrophysicists are named Brian. The cool ones are anyway.
But the coolest of the cool astrophysicists, are Rock Gods named Brian. Cool

Thanks, Kim. I have seen Brian Cox on a few doco's and he's very good.
Would you be talking about Brian May from Queen by any chance?? Tongue

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