In world history class, I got into a debate about Gay Marriage!
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
04-11-2013, 09:10 PM
In world history class, I got into a debate about Gay Marriage!
So, last Friday, World History was my first class of the day, and my teacher decided he would let us pick a topic to debate about. I suggested Government Discrimination Laws, but that was shot down, and somebody suggested Gay marriage.

Well, we split up into two groups, and out of fourteen people, I was one of the only four who supported Gay marriage.

So it was ten going against four, and I started listing off reasons as to why the government has no right denying same-sex marriage, since marriage is no longer a religious institution.

I think I handled myself well, I disapproved the "Its a choice" statement by telling them this:

"Alright, assuming we humans have free will according to the Catholic Church, we don't, but let's assume so for the sake of the argument. The Catholic Church teaches that humans, and humans alone have free will, I.e choice. Animals do not.

Scientists have observed over 1,500 different species of animals participating in homosexual behavior. So, if according to Catholics, only humans have free will, how are these animals CHOOSING to be homosexual?"

I thought it was a pretty convincing argument, but they merely brushed it aside saying that "We may not have science, but we have God, and he says that being gay, or participating in homosexual acts is sinful."

I retorted by asking them a simple question: "Where exactly does it say in the bible that Jesus condemned Homosexualiy? Nowhere. Where does it say in the bible? In Leviticus. You know what else is in Leviticus? That you shouldn't shave, or eat crawfish. And by the way, Jesus himself didn't follow the law, and neither do any of you. Condemnation of homosexuality is in the Old Testament, and so is having slaves and ritual sacrifices."

"But Steven," A really attractive Airhead begins, "You are an atheist, so you have no right to tell us what God said or thinks."

"I probably have read the bible more times than you, and I don't need to believe in a God to understand the sentences in the Bible."

I think it is a shame that they side tracked the discussion, and made it about me when I was simply arguing for free rights.

I don't know, was I wrong to openly criticize the Old Testament in this context?

[Image: 0013382F-E507-48AE-906B-53008666631C-757...cc3639.jpg]
Credit goes to UndercoverAtheist.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 4 users Like Atothetheist's post
04-11-2013, 09:14 PM
RE: In world history class, I got into a debate about Gay Marriage!
Not at all, good job. That's such a slimy way to try and win an argument. Attacking you personally instead of the argument itself.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Smercury44's post
04-11-2013, 09:19 PM
RE: In world history class, I got into a debate about Gay Marriage!
I think you got derailed with the animal things, imo the best way to answer the "it's a choice" argument is to ask who are you to judge other people's choices?
Otherwise you implicitly accept that they have the right to say whether gay marriage is right or wrong based on the bible.

Not that you were wrong, it's just not the best strategy in my experience.

[Image: sigvacachica.png]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like nach_in's post
04-11-2013, 09:21 PM
RE: In world history class, I got into a debate about Gay Marriage!
(04-11-2013 09:19 PM)nach_in Wrote:  I think you got derailed with the animal things, imo the best way to answer the "it's a choice" argument is to ask who are you to judge other people's choices?
Otherwise you implicitly accept that they have the right to say whether gay marriage is right or wrong based on the bible.

Not that you were wrong, it's just not the best strategy in my experience.

Or to ask when they "chose" to be heterosexual
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 6 users Like Smercury44's post
04-11-2013, 09:22 PM
RE: In world history class, I got into a debate about Gay Marriage!
(04-11-2013 09:19 PM)nach_in Wrote:  I think you got derailed with the animal things, imo the best way to answer the "it's a choice" argument is to ask who are you to judge other people's choices?
Otherwise you implicitly accept that they have the right to say whether gay marriage is right or wrong based on the bible.

Not that you were wrong, it's just not the best strategy in my experience.

Not necessarily, I didn't touch on whether it was OK for them to judge. They can judge a person for being gay (people who do will be most-likely labeled a bigot by me), but they shouldn't have the right to punish a person for being what they naturally are.

[Image: 0013382F-E507-48AE-906B-53008666631C-757...cc3639.jpg]
Credit goes to UndercoverAtheist.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Atothetheist's post
04-11-2013, 09:23 PM
RE: In world history class, I got into a debate about Gay Marriage!
(04-11-2013 09:21 PM)Smercury44 Wrote:  
(04-11-2013 09:19 PM)nach_in Wrote:  I think you got derailed with the animal things, imo the best way to answer the "it's a choice" argument is to ask who are you to judge other people's choices?
Otherwise you implicitly accept that they have the right to say whether gay marriage is right or wrong based on the bible.

Not that you were wrong, it's just not the best strategy in my experience.

Or to ask when they "chose" to be heterosexual

I did that. I asked them when they choose and they looked at me as if I was stupid.

[Image: 0013382F-E507-48AE-906B-53008666631C-757...cc3639.jpg]
Credit goes to UndercoverAtheist.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
04-11-2013, 09:32 PM
RE: In world history class, I got into a debate about Gay Marriage!
(04-11-2013 09:10 PM)Atothetheist Wrote:  "But Steven," A really attractive Airhead begins, "You are an atheist, so you have no right to tell us what God said or thinks."

Ask her to boink the Atheism out of you Smile

But as they are brainwashed about the evil of moraless Atheist, they probably think your ok with bestiality and other perversions.
So I can see why they would not take your opinion as valid.
Your not human to them.

Theism is to believe what other people claim, Atheism is to ask "why should I".
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like sporehux's post
04-11-2013, 09:37 PM
RE: In world history class, I got into a debate about Gay Marriage!
(04-11-2013 09:23 PM)Atothetheist Wrote:  
(04-11-2013 09:21 PM)Smercury44 Wrote:  Or to ask when they "chose" to be heterosexual

I did that. I asked them when they choose and they looked at me as if I was stupid.

Then you need to work on your presentation. Blank stares are not enough, I go for active derision and spit-take moments. Evil_monster

Something alone the lines of...

Well, when did you decide to be heterosexual? When did you choose? You're positing that gay people simply choose to be gay, like they choose which color shit to wear. You think that a gay guy just simply woke up one day with the thought that 'you know what? I'd like some cock' and made it a day? Do you think anyone would actually chose this given the culture of discrimination, hate, potential violence and death? All for a little cock? Really? Really really?


Also, when they resent you quoting the Bible at them, bring up the fact that they believe it's the MOST IMPORTANT book in history and filled with divine wisdom. Ask them why THEY haven't read it, and then point out that not only have you, but it's one of the reasons you are an atheist. Also ask how many of them have read a Dan Brown novel or a Harry Potter book for comparison to how many of them have bulldozered through the whole Bible.

[Image: GrumpyCat_01.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like EvolutionKills's post
04-11-2013, 09:39 PM
RE: In world history class, I got into a debate about Gay Marriage!
(04-11-2013 09:37 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(04-11-2013 09:23 PM)Atothetheist Wrote:  I did that. I asked them when they choose and they looked at me as if I was stupid.

Then you need to work on your presentation. Blank stares are not enough, I go for active derision and spit-take moments. Evil_monster

Something alone the lines of...

Well, when did you decide to be heterosexual? When did you choose? You're positing that gay people simply choose to be gay, like they choose which color shit to wear. You think that a gay guy just simply woke up one day with the thought that 'you know what? I'd like some cock' and made it a day? Do you think anyone would actually chose this given the culture of discrimination, hate, potential violence and death? All for a little cock? Really? Really really?

I did make the point about " why WOULD you choose."

[Image: 0013382F-E507-48AE-906B-53008666631C-757...cc3639.jpg]
Credit goes to UndercoverAtheist.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
04-11-2013, 09:44 PM
RE: In world history class, I got into a debate about Gay Marriage!
Ato,
Being in Catholic school means that the religion is going to color all your classes, unfortunately. What you can hope for is that when you bring things up like this the seed will be planted in some of the people to start thinking. Some people aren't going to speak up out of fear, but if you provide some sides to the argument that people haven't considered before you can start them on a path to think outside the church teaching.

I'm not anti-social. I'm pro-solitude. Sleepy
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Anjele's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: