Incontrovertible proof God exists
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12-03-2014, 08:24 PM
RE: Incontrovertible proof God exists
Hey Miss Meng,

what part of the world are you from?
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12-03-2014, 08:28 PM
RE: Incontrovertible proof God exists
(12-03-2014 08:24 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  Hey Miss Meng,

what part of the world are you from?

Hong Kong, China Mark Fulton! Smile

~ Miss Meng
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12-03-2014, 08:31 PM
RE: Incontrovertible proof God exists
(12-03-2014 08:17 PM)Miss Meng Wrote:  Chas, do you know what moral relativism is? It means the person believes there is no objective truth in regards to morality. ANYTHING can be justified as right or wrong depending on the viewpoint of the individual. THAT'S why we need GOD moral morality. We NEED a moral authority, otherwise Hitler and the nazis' actions are perfectly justifiable to them and to those who think as they do, and those who disagree can only do that - disagree.

Except the existence of an absolute morality - let us ignore for the moment that history is full of entirely contradictory "absolute" moralities - has no bearing on what the Nazis themselves thought.

Do you understand this?

Regardless of the existence of any objective moral standard - the Nazis thought themselves correct.

(12-03-2014 08:17 PM)Miss Meng Wrote:  But so what?

So what indeed.

(12-03-2014 08:17 PM)Miss Meng Wrote:  It doesn't mean those that disagree are right or wrong and it doesn't mean the nazis were right or wrong...it means ALL are right and wrong. In moral relativism, Hilter's morals are just as 'good' as yours and you have no moral authority in which to appeal to show that you're right.

The moral authority one has is the means by which one makes such a judgement.

You certainly cannot tell people they cannot form moral judgements. And they manifestly disagree regardless of the existence of an objective standard. Therefore the authority behind their judgement can only ever be their own.

So what? I'm still waiting...

(12-03-2014 08:17 PM)Miss Meng Wrote:  Chas, THAT'S the point. Your opinion would be irrelevant because it's no better or worse than theirs.

Are you really so terrified of ambiguity?

Tough shit. That's the way the universe rolls.

Things do not exist just because you want NEED them.

(12-03-2014 08:17 PM)Miss Meng Wrote:  Think of it as if it were a painting. You may find it beautiful, others may find it ugly. Do you care what the others think of the painting? Do their opinions determine whether YOU think it's beautiful?

Irrelevant.

(12-03-2014 08:17 PM)Miss Meng Wrote:  You see, your opinion is irrelevant to them just as their opinion is to you.
Same with moral relativism. Your opinion of whether Hitler/nazis were wrong immoral is irrelevant because there is no one true morality in moral subjectivism. You're right in what you believe to be moral, and the nazis were right in what they believed to be moral. THAT is why we NEED GOD, rapkyn. Without GOD, the nazis' actions were not immoral even if we think of them as immoral because our opinion carries no more weight than theirs. We have a draw.

I wouldn't exactly call the rest of the world fighting and dying to stop them "a draw". So there's that.

Since moral disagreements ensue regardless of the existence of an objective standard, the only grounds one ever has for judging another are subjective personal experience.

Every single religious person who thinks their own moral judgements correct thinks those moral judgements stem from some divinity.

Yes, that includes the Nazis.

(12-03-2014 08:17 PM)Miss Meng Wrote:  In fact, in atheism, the nazis were more than justified o do what they did because they are just dominating the others in nature, a la 'survival of the fittest' If the nazis could ensure their descendants would have a better chance of survival by killing off 6 million people, and basically running Europe, why is that immoral? That's what darwinism is all about: Preservation of Favoured Races in the Struggle for Life

Oh, so you're going to go ahead and completely misunderstand and misrepresent evolutionary theory again. I mean, there is the immediate fallacious equivalence of "atheism" (what do you mean you people?) and "darwinism" (notwithstanding the next 150 years)...

Yawn. Wake me up when you've got something original.

(12-03-2014 08:17 PM)Miss Meng Wrote:  THAT's also why darwinism is needed by eugenicists, which is why they struggle so hard to retain it in spite of the fact more and more scientists are moving away from it in light of the negative evidence against it.

"More and more scientists", eh?

Do you have... evidence, of that?

Remember, evolution is supported by over 1300 professional scientists named Steve.

(12-03-2014 08:17 PM)Miss Meng Wrote:  You have to ask yourself this question: If moral relativism is true, then why have morality at all? It would akin to allowing people to obey only the laws they agree with. One would ask: Why have laws at all then?

Good questions.

The first page of an intro-to-ethics textbook might be of some use to you.

That's assuming, of course, you have any actual interest in the answers. Which I doubt.

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12-03-2014, 08:33 PM
RE: Incontrovertible proof God exists
(12-03-2014 05:00 PM)Miss Meng Wrote:  Oh Chas, are you still upset that you were caught with your pants down in the other thread. Don't worry Chas, Miss Meng will make it all better here....

I'm sure you'd like that, wouldn't you Meng.


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12-03-2014, 09:15 PM
RE: Incontrovertible proof God exists
(12-03-2014 08:17 PM)Miss Meng Wrote:  
(12-03-2014 01:49 PM)Chas Wrote:  Your disorder prevents you from taking in useful information.

Chas, do you know what moral relativism is? It means the person believes there is no objective truth in regards to morality. ANYTHING can be justified as right or wrong depending on the viewpoint of the individual. THAT'S why we need GOD moral morality. We NEED a moral authority, otherwise Hitler and the nazis' actions are perfectly justifiable to them and to those who think as they do, and those who disagree can only do that - disagree. But so what? It doesn't mean those that disagree are right or wrong and it doesn't mean the nazis were right or wrong...it means ALL are right and wrong. In moral relativism, Hilter's morals are just as 'good' as yours and you have no moral authority in which to appeal to show that you're right.

Chas, THAT'S the point. Your opinion would be irrelevant because it's no better or worse than theirs. Think of it as if it were a painting. You may find it beautiful, others may find it ugly. Do you care what the others think of the painting? Do their opinions determine whether YOU think it's beautiful?

You see, your opinion is irrelevant to them just as their opinion is to you.
Same with moral relativism. Your opinion of whether Hitler/nazis were wrong immoral is irrelevant because there is no one true morality in moral subjectivism. You're right in what you believe to be moral, and the nazis were right in what they believed to be moral. THAT is why we NEED GOD, Chas. Without GOD, the nazis' actions were not immoral even if we think of them as immoral because our opinion carries no more weight than theirs. We have a draw.

In fact, in atheism, the nazis were more than justified o do what they did because they are just dominating the others in nature, a la 'survival of the fittest' If the nazis could ensure their descendants would have a better chance of survival by killing off 6 million people, and basically running Europe, why is that immoral? That's what darwinism is all about: Preservation of Favoured Races in the Struggle for Life

THAT's also why darwinism is needed by eugenicists, which is why they struggle so hard to retain it in spite of the fact more and more scientists are moving away from it in light of the negative evidence against it.

You have to ask yourself this question: If moral relativism is true, then why have morality at all? It would akin to allowing people to obey only the laws they agree with. One would ask: Why have laws at all then?

Quote:And your underhanded insults prove that you are an ignorant, closed-minded, bigoted twat.

You have already said that Chas. We all know you have absolutely nothing of merit or substance to add and get flustered at the thought of others intellectual prowess and so resort to insults or namecalling.

I am though very sorry you feel that way Chas.

Take care Chas and may He bless you! Smile

~ Miss Meng

I am not calling you names, I am accurately describing you.

I have not propounded moral relativism. There are many moral philosophies that do not depend on gods or absolutes. You are playing the intellectually vacuous game called 'false dichotomies'.

I suggest you actually learn something before proposing your simplistic, intellectually lazy answers.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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12-03-2014, 09:17 PM
RE: Incontrovertible proof God exists
(12-03-2014 05:00 PM)Miss Meng Wrote:  
(12-03-2014 01:49 PM)Chas Wrote:  Your disorder prevents you from taking in useful information.

And your underhanded insults prove that you are an ignorant, closed-minded, bigoted twat.

Oh Chas, are you still upset that you were caught with your pants down in the other thread. Don't worry Chas, Miss Meng will make it all better here because she uses reason, logic, sensible thinking and above all a mature attitude.

I am always available for a conversation Chas, anytime you wish. I don't mean to correct you, but you do make the mistake of umm, shall we say, misunderstanding things! Miss Meng titters. Never mind, I am confident this confusion is rectifiable very quickly Chas.

Take care Chas and God bless.

~ Miss Meng

Caught with my pants down in what other thread? What the fuck are you on about?

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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12-03-2014, 09:18 PM
RE: Incontrovertible proof God exists
(12-03-2014 09:17 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(12-03-2014 05:00 PM)Miss Meng Wrote:  Oh Chas, are you still upset that you were caught with your pants down in the other thread. Don't worry Chas, Miss Meng will make it all better here because she uses reason, logic, sensible thinking and above all a mature attitude.

I am always available for a conversation Chas, anytime you wish. I don't mean to correct you, but you do make the mistake of umm, shall we say, misunderstanding things! Miss Meng titters. Never mind, I am confident this confusion is rectifiable very quickly Chas.

Take care Chas and God bless.

~ Miss Meng

Caught with my pants down in what other thread? What the fuck are you on about?

YAY...pics or it didn't happen. Tongue

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12-03-2014, 10:10 PM
RE: Incontrovertible proof God exists
(12-03-2014 09:17 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(12-03-2014 05:00 PM)Miss Meng Wrote:  Oh Chas, are you still upset that you were caught with your pants down in the other thread. Don't worry Chas, Miss Meng will make it all better here because she uses reason, logic, sensible thinking and above all a mature attitude.

I am always available for a conversation Chas, anytime you wish. I don't mean to correct you, but you do make the mistake of umm, shall we say, misunderstanding things! Miss Meng titters. Never mind, I am confident this confusion is rectifiable very quickly Chas.

Take care Chas and God bless.

~ Miss Meng

Caught with my pants down in what other thread? What the fuck are you on about?

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12-03-2014, 10:23 PM
RE: Incontrovertible proof God exists
Fucking Chas, keep yer clothes on. Dodgy

This is why atheists have such a bad rep. Angel

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12-03-2014, 10:50 PM
RE: Incontrovertible proof God exists
(12-03-2014 12:57 PM)Miss Meng Wrote:  I would like to point out that I will probably only reply to shorter posts, as I have an attention disorder ...

Looks more like Narcissistic Personality Disorder to Me, 孟小姐.
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