Incontrovertible proof God exists
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11-03-2014, 02:12 PM
RE: Incontrovertible proof God exists
Do we know what god she means yet?
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11-03-2014, 02:22 PM
RE: Incontrovertible proof God exists
(11-03-2014 11:44 AM)Tartarus Sauce Wrote:  My mind is blown....by the sheer retardery of this argument.

This is the epitome of all false dichotomies: essentially, you are stating the ONLY two options as being moral relativism and god-given morality. Since we oh-so clearly can't live with Hitler having been justified in his actions, therefore, god.

That is literally your argument.

How fucking stupid.


I am LOVING (and stealing) the word: retardery.

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11-03-2014, 02:28 PM (This post was last modified: 11-03-2014 02:32 PM by IndianAtheist.)
RE: Incontrovertible proof God exists
(11-03-2014 11:41 AM)Miss Meng Wrote:  Moral Subjectivism - Nazis Were Doing Good and We Shouldn’t Have Stopped Them

Therefore, as long as Hitler believed his actions right, and those who carried out his orders believed similarly, then to the full extent that the principle of moral subjectivism has to authorize anything as “moral” or “good”, the holocaust was a good and moral event, and moral subjectivists must (rationally speaking) admit this. (I doubt they will, though.)
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Dreams/Hallucinations/delusions are not evidence
Wishful thinking is not evidence
Disproved statements&Illogical conclusions are not evidence
Logical fallacies&Unsubstantiated claims are not evidence
Vague prophecies is not evidence
Data that requires a certain belief is not evidence
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11-03-2014, 02:39 PM
RE: Incontrovertible proof God exists
Hey Meng check this out
http://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?t...l_argument
Your argument got completely OWNED!
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11-03-2014, 02:42 PM
Incontrovertible proof God exists
(11-03-2014 02:03 PM)cjlr Wrote:  So we're apparently talking about evolution and information and such, now. Well, I seem to recall having had something to say on the matter on previous occasions. And here it is!

(21-10-2013 12:22 PM)cjlr Wrote:  Define information, David111. Consider how it is biologically encoded. Then explain how it cannot be 'created' or how it is 'already present'. Your understanding of evolution is woefully inadequate. But ignorance is curable - if the will is there!

Let us consider evolution as a process. Note - evolution was theorized a century before DNA was discovered. Heredity was an obvious phenomenon (you may recognize its having been used for millenia in a process we call farming), but the mechanism was unknown.

There are three observations which lead to the inevitable evolutionary conclusion.
A) there is variation among individuals in a population
B) said variation affects an individual's likelihood of reproducing
C) said variations are hereditary (and influenced by both parents where reproduction is sexual)

The combination of A, B, and C leads to the conclusion: the makeup of a population changes over time. If selection pressure is convergent the population is stable. If selection pressure is uniform then the population shifts as a whole. If selection pressures are divergent then speciation results.

Which of these fundamental observations do you disagree with?

But let us also consider change at a genetic level. A strand of DNA is composed of sequences of four bases - A, C, T, and G. An organism's DNA is billions of pairs long, but let us consider a short starting sequence - GATTACA - as an example.

Whatever 'information' the sequence contains is just it, itself - GATTACA. That is a series of values in a specific order. Let us call it a 'gene'.

There are several types of mutation which may occur. Local mutations can be either substitutions, insertions, or deletions.

Substitution is a change from GATTACA to GATTACG (where an 'A' is replaced by 'G'). This produces a new sequence. This constitutes 'new' information, in that the genome now contains a sequence it did not previously contain.

Insertion is the addition of more base pairs (usually, but not necessarily, through duplication). Consider GATTACA to GATTACACA (where an extra 'AC' has been inserted). This produces a new sequence. This constitutes 'new' information, in that the genome now contains a sequence it did not previously contain.

Deletion is the removal of base pairs. Consider GATTACA to GATTA (where the original 'CA' has been lost). This produces a new sequence. This constitutes 'new' information, in that the genome now contains a sequence it did not previously contain.

Many mutations are harmful. Many more do nothing (many amino acids are represented by more than one codon; many sequences of DNA have no clear purpose). Some are beneficial. This accounts for the aforementioned variation, and its source and scope. Its consequences (which is to say evolution) are already enumerated.

Fuck I'm lazy. Well, but reality hasn't changed. How much of it does our delightful OP want to deny?

(but also: I thought this thread was about Nazis?)

Irrelevant!

"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord."
-Adolf Hitler

HEIL JESU, GOD OF THE NAZIS!

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11-03-2014, 02:48 PM
RE: Incontrovertible proof God exists
(11-03-2014 02:12 PM)Elder Cunningham Wrote:  Do we know what god she means yet?

What makes you think it's a "she"?

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11-03-2014, 03:12 PM
RE: Incontrovertible proof God exists
Actually Miissy Ignoramus Meng, the membership of National Socialist German Workers Party was in no way monolithic. There were many in the party who objected completely with some of the things done by its leadership. Your premise is built on shifting sand. So sad. Too bad. Missy tly again tomollow.

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Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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11-03-2014, 03:16 PM
RE: Incontrovertible proof God exists
(11-03-2014 11:41 AM)Miss Meng Wrote:  From Uncommon Descent:

Moral Subjectivism - Nazis Were Doing Good and We Shouldn’t Have Stopped Them

Under moral subjectivism, good and bad are entirely subjective commodities. This means that if I think a thing is right, it is as right as is possible for moral right to exist. The principle of subjective morality authorizes an act as “morally good” if the person that performed the act believed it to be the right thing to do; that is the only framework available to moral subjectivism for an evaluation of “moral” and “immoral”. It is strictly a relationship between the actor/believer and the act.

Therefore, as long as Hitler believed his actions right, and those who carried out his orders believed similarly, then to the full extent that the principle of moral subjectivism has to authorize anything as “moral” or “good”, the holocaust was a good and moral event, and moral subjectivists must (rationally speaking) admit this. (I doubt they will, though.)

The way that moral relativists attempt to wiggle out of this is by saying that in their opinion, Hitler was behaving immorally. Unfortunately, they have no rational basis for making this statement. It is a category error, a non-sequitur under moral subjectivism, offered as if there was some means by which to pass judgement on what others consider to be right. Their principle necessarily endorses the actions of the Nazis as morally good as long as they (the Nazis) believed what they were doing was right; what anyone else thought or thinks is entirely irrelevant. The most that the principle of moral subjectivism logically allows subjectivists to say is that gassing the Jews would not be morally good for them personally to do, but that it was morally good for the Nazis to do.

Furthermore, since the principle of moral subjectivism offers no valid reason to intervene in the moral affairs of others (since it is entirely subjective and there is no objective obligation or authority to do so), and since moral relativists must admit that nothing morally wrong was occurring in the first place (in fact, only moral good was likely happening, since the Nazis believed what they were doing was right), they must hold that we should not have interfered with the Nazis.

Thus, moral subjectivism necessary means that the Nazis were doing good and we shouldn’t have stopped them.

http://www.uncommondescent.com/intellige...ectivism-n azis-were-doing-good-and-we-shouldnt-have-stopped-them/

Thus, we NEED God for morality. Thus, morality, love, creativity, ethics all emanate from his divine authority.

I am so happy I was able to offer people who are a little confused about His existence some guidance, help and support.

Miss Meng takes a sip of her mineral water. Let the facts speak for themselves, shall we?

~ Miss Meng

So, because I think morality is situational, I therefore believe that Hitler's actions were right because he and a lot of others did?

What sort of bullshit reasoning is that?

We don't need any deity for any reason, let alone for the existence of abstract concepts like morality or ethics, and the christian god is not a deity who has any right to speak of morality, nor do it's followers have right to claim it is responsible.
Morality does not exist in one small area and then means it is unquestionable; every human being, every group they make have different morals, one group having the belief saying one thing does not make it reasonably uniform; it makes it different outside the rest of the groups where it disagrees.

Also: Why even bother going for Argumentum Ad Hitlerum? It looks like you are just trying to play on the deaths of millions to justify yourself against others (us). And that, I think we can all agree, is an absolutely disgusting behaviour indeed.

The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
"Anti-environmentalism is like standing in front of a forest and going 'quick kill them they're coming right for us!'" - Jake Farr-Wharton, The Imaginary Friend Show.
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11-03-2014, 03:22 PM
RE: Incontrovertible proof God exists
(11-03-2014 02:08 PM)DemonicLemon Wrote:  I wish I was half as smart as that, cjlr. Bowing

(11-03-2014 02:06 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  Incontrovertible proof Wargarble exists:

Wargarble bargle glabrabalal warbargle ral. Lalgarbralalllalrag gar lalraglal raglarll. Warlagrlaral wargarble larl lal garb bar gar. Warlalgarblabl lar larlar garbalalrlal. Warblarlar garblaral ar gargar larglarl.
  • Garble
  • Warlarble
  • Gargargar
  • Lar warblalargarblar

Wargarble.

*looks around* Did I get any converts?!
HAIL WARLARBLE!

WARGARBLE BORBLARGAR GARGALARGAR GOGGLLARGAR! GARBLE GAR WAR GURGLE AR GWAR!*

(translation: You blaspheme the good name of Wargarble! Speak in His tongue or perish, fool)

Excuse me, I'm making perfect sense. You're just not keeping up.

"Let me give you some advice, bastard: never forget what you are. The rest of the world will not. Wear it like armor, and it can never be used to hurt you." - Tyrion Lannister
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11-03-2014, 03:26 PM
RE: Incontrovertible proof God exists
(11-03-2014 03:22 PM)itsnotmeitsyou Wrote:  
(11-03-2014 02:08 PM)DemonicLemon Wrote:  I wish I was half as smart as that, cjlr. Bowing

HAIL WARLARBLE!

WARGARBLE BORBLARGAR GARGALARGAR GOGGLLARGAR! GARBLE GAR WAR GURGLE AR GWAR!*

(translation: You blaspheme the good name of Wargarble! Speak in His tongue or perish, fool)

I see your Warlarble and raise you a wololo.




The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
"Anti-environmentalism is like standing in front of a forest and going 'quick kill them they're coming right for us!'" - Jake Farr-Wharton, The Imaginary Friend Show.
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