Index Card Arguments
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25-07-2016, 11:13 AM
Index Card Arguments
Recently I have undertaken a small project to write down exact reasons I stopped believing in a god. I do this on 3x5 index cards I keep in an index card holder in my truck. Then whenever I run into the evangelicals, mormons on campus, or anyone else who challenges my lack of belief, I simply pull out this little box and explain that for them to convert me to their religion, all they need do is disprove the arguments I have in the box.

My question for the forum is, what arguments would you guys put in the box? I've been writing them out for a while but I know I will always be missing a few and would like to hear other people's reasons for not believing (yes if I agree with what you write I may write it on a notecard an put it in my own box.) If the issue is scientific in nature, please provide sources, and if it is philosophical please include any relevant quotes from philosopher if applicable. Yes I'm detailed in this, I originally started this because I could not remember sources for my scientific arguments on the fly. So now if I am arguing with an Abrahamic faith based believer and they try and tell me there are records of Jews in Egypt in massive numbers I have the exact source that says there was not.

I realize this post is becoming long, but this section is for those interested in the layout and use of the cards. In top left I put the primary "target," so is this argument against the concept of a god in general or the christian god specifically? Then top right is length of argument, for example the problem of evil is a long discussion while a quick bible contradiction is classified as short. This helps me pick one appropriate for the venue, I'm not going to stand with a street preacher and engage in an hour or so debate over the problem of evil, I'll just pull out a bible contradiction and hear his counterargument. Upper left under target is the argument itself, ex "Problem of Evil." Rest of card is devote to quotes and sources, so for the problem of evil I have Epicurus' quote and fallacies to watch for when arguing this point, for the problem of evil I see the Texas sharpshooter fallacy a lot, got to count the misses with the hits son.

Really sorry for the long post but I would really appreciate hearing what your guys' notecards would say. Thank you for the time.
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25-07-2016, 11:34 AM
RE: Index Card Arguments
Of all the trillions of galaxies in the universe, there's countless solar systems,each with an unimaginable number of planets that could sustain life.

On all those planets - if we extrapolate from life on earth - there's likely to be hundreds, if not thousands of religion on each planet -- bringing the total number of religions and gods in the universe up to unimaginable numbers.

And you expect me, to believe you've got the only one in all creation that's RIGHT?????

What are the fuckin' odds????

......

It makes the lottery look like a sure bet....

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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25-07-2016, 11:40 AM
RE: Index Card Arguments
Magic and fairytales aren't real.

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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25-07-2016, 11:50 AM
RE: Index Card Arguments
1 "Aren't you a little old for imaginary playmates/friends?"

2. If it is a woman, ask her to explain 1 Timothy 2:12 KJV and how it affects her when proselytizing:

"But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence."
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25-07-2016, 12:16 PM
RE: Index Card Arguments
(25-07-2016 11:13 AM)Mkline2 Wrote:  My question for the forum is, what arguments would you guys put in the box? I've been writing them out for a while but I know I will always be missing a few and would like to hear other people's reasons for not believing (yes if I agree with what you write I may write it on a notecard an put it in my own box.) If the issue is scientific in nature, please provide sources, and if it is philosophical please include any relevant quotes from philosopher if applicable. Yes I'm detailed in this, I originally started this because I could not remember sources for my scientific arguments on the fly. So now if I am arguing with an Abrahamic faith based believer and they try and tell me there are records of Jews in Egypt in massive numbers I have the exact source that says there was not.

First, welcome to the forum.

I was recently viewing some of the archived shows of The Atheist Experience (#650) Tracie Harris brought up a case involving rape and a caller vomited up the "Free Will" argument to explain why God allows evil to exist in the world. Tracie, then, pointed out that the rape victim no doubt had the will to not be raped.

Which illustrates the utter bankruptcy and stupidity of this argument. What kind of God would allow the free will of a rapist, but deny it to the victim of the rape. The answer, in the words of Richard Dawkins, is a God which is the most evil character in all of fiction.

Of course, we are fortunate that such a God does not exist in the real world, but the question shows how important it is to convince people that, if such a God did exist, it would be more worthy of contempt than worship.

One of the sources (of my thinking on the subject) is Voltaire's observation that "if we believe absurdities, we shall commit atrocities".

I hope that this was helpful.

If we believe absurdities, we shall commit atrocities.--Voltaire.

"To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason is like administering medicine to the dead." --Thomas Paine.
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25-07-2016, 12:19 PM
RE: Index Card Arguments
It was helpful, thank you for the input.
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25-07-2016, 12:31 PM (This post was last modified: 25-07-2016 12:34 PM by SitaSky.)
RE: Index Card Arguments
For Christians I usually ask:

If you believe in the concept of Hell as a real place why would you ever want to bring a child into this world knowing they may end up going there? Even if you raised them going to church and to love God they could always reject it later on, become an atheist or follow some other false religion and end up burning forever, could you be happy in Heaven knowing they are burning? There is nothing you can do about either, this God you worship doesn't care, he only cares about his followers, everyone else can burn, literally so you can pray to God and beg him for mercy for your child and unless your child believed during their entire life or at least towards the end of their life they will not be granted any salvation, even if they lived a good life and never hurt anyone.

Would you still think your God is loving and merciful and worthy of worship? Would you still think Heaven is paradise if your child isn't there with you?

[Image: sagansig_zps6vhbql6m.jpg]
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25-07-2016, 12:31 PM
RE: Index Card Arguments
Mkline - from the perspective of a biologist, for whom learning about science was the main reason I began questioning, and then left, the church... I'd say spend some time at the TalkOrigins archives, where they have literally thousands of points on why the claims of the Bible idolators cannot be true.

http://www.talkorigins.org/

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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25-07-2016, 12:33 PM
RE: Index Card Arguments
Interesting, I'll check it out

Compassion is the basis of morality. -Arnold Schopenhauer

For me, I am driven by two main philosophies: know more today about the world than I knew yesterday and lessen the suffering of others. You'd be surprised how far that gets you. -Neil DeGrasse Tyson
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25-07-2016, 01:02 PM
RE: Index Card Arguments
(25-07-2016 11:13 AM)Mkline2 Wrote:  Recently I have undertaken a small project to write down exact reasons I stopped believing in a god. I do this on 3x5 index cards I keep in an index card holder in my truck. Then whenever I run into the evangelicals, mormons on campus, or anyone else who challenges my lack of belief, I simply pull out this little box and explain that for them to convert me to their religion, all they need do is disprove the arguments I have in the box.

My question for the forum is, what arguments would you guys put in the box? I've been writing them out for a while but I know I will always be missing a few and would like to hear other people's reasons for not believing (yes if I agree with what you write I may write it on a notecard an put it in my own box.) If the issue is scientific in nature, please provide sources, and if it is philosophical please include any relevant quotes from philosopher if applicable. Yes I'm detailed in this, I originally started this because I could not remember sources for my scientific arguments on the fly. So now if I am arguing with an Abrahamic faith based believer and they try and tell me there are records of Jews in Egypt in massive numbers I have the exact source that says there was not.

I realize this post is becoming long, but this section is for those interested in the layout and use of the cards. In top left I put the primary "target," so is this argument against the concept of a god in general or the christian god specifically? Then top right is length of argument, for example the problem of evil is a long discussion while a quick bible contradiction is classified as short. This helps me pick one appropriate for the venue, I'm not going to stand with a street preacher and engage in an hour or so debate over the problem of evil, I'll just pull out a bible contradiction and hear his counterargument. Upper left under target is the argument itself, ex "Problem of Evil." Rest of card is devote to quotes and sources, so for the problem of evil I have Epicurus' quote and fallacies to watch for when arguing this point, for the problem of evil I see the Texas sharpshooter fallacy a lot, got to count the misses with the hits son.

Really sorry for the long post but I would really appreciate hearing what your guys' notecards would say. Thank you for the time.

This is a brilliant idea. I'd have only one card and it would say:

So you want to convert me, eh? Refute the following:

Given theism's assumption of the primacy of consciousness, it is incompatible with the primacy of existence and can therefor not be true.

Do that and you have a chance. Do it not and you have none. Have fun!

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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