"Indoctrination"
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
24-08-2012, 11:28 AM (This post was last modified: 24-08-2012 11:32 AM by Vosur.)
RE: "Indoctrination"
(24-08-2012 11:19 AM)Ghost Wrote:  And by definition, every single child on the planet is indoctrinated. It's called being raised. What is implied in this particular use of the term is that the religious are somehow doing something that other parents are not. Which is preposterous. That's the issue that I have. That the word is being given connotative meaning that implies that one group is doing something special when everyone is doing it, as well as being imbued with the implication that what they are doing is somehow sinister <twists moustache and adjusts monocle>.
No, Ghost, that's not the case at all.

indoctrinate - Pronunciation: /inˈdäktrəˌnāt/
verb
[with object]
teach (a person or group) to accept a set of beliefs uncritically:
- broadcasting was a vehicle for indoctrinating the masses
- archaic teach or instruct (someone): he indoctrinated them in systematic theology

http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition...octrinated

[Image: 7oDSbD4.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Vosur's post
24-08-2012, 11:44 AM
RE: "Indoctrination"
Hey, Vosur.

Oh yes it is.

-to imbue with learning.

And "uncritically" does not appear at all in my dictionary.

In developmental psychology this is simply called psychosocial development. It's a perfectly normal part of growing up.

Now, of course, I'm not saying that there are no moustache twisting, monocle adjusting sick fucks out there (Jesus Camp) but the notion that what occurs at Jesus Camp is representative of what happens in every Christian home is, well, straight up fucking dumb.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Ghost's post
24-08-2012, 11:48 AM
RE: "Indoctrination"
(24-08-2012 11:44 AM)Ghost Wrote:  Hey, Vosur.

Oh yes it is.

-to imbue with learning.

And "uncritically" does not appear at all in my dictionary.
No, it's not. What dictionary are you using? Drinking Beverage

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indoctrination

[Image: 7oDSbD4.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Vosur's post
24-08-2012, 11:59 AM
RE: "Indoctrination"
Sorry Ghost, but the standard definition of the term does include "uncritical acceptance."

You may not like it or use it that way but that doesn't mean that others can't use it in that way. It's a valid way of using the word just as using the word atheist to mean someone that positively believes that no god exists (as opposed the more standard, modern definition that I use, which is rejecting or withholding belief in specific a specific defined god concept or concepts).

Join the Logic Speaks Community

I am the unconverted
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
24-08-2012, 12:08 PM
RE: "Indoctrination"
My 1.5 cents on the matter is:

"Indoctrination" comes from the word "Doctrine" which has to do with a system of beliefs. Calvinism is a doctrine. The Trinity is a doctrine. The Atonement is a doctrine. To indoctrinate means to pass along one's doctrine to the uninitiated...typically, but not always, children.

So, are religious people the only ones guilty of indoctrinating? Probably not. But I do think it is more typical of secular folks to educate their children while religious folks indoctrinate their children.

From wiki on the webz:
The term indoctrination came to have awkward connotations during the 20th century, but it is necessary to retain it, in order to distinguish it from education. In education one is asked to stand as much as possible outside the body of accumulated knowledge and analyze it oneself. In indoctrination on the other hand, one stands within the body of knowledge and absorbs its teachings without critical thought.

From my experiences in growing up among the religious, when it comes to Bible doctrine, there wasn't much standing outside the body of accumulated knowledge with encouragement to analyze it for myself. Therefore, believe I was indoctrinated into Christianity. When I left the church and began to learn things on my own and look for alternative explanations for life, the universe, and everything, I've been learning how to analyze things for myself and to keep a critical eye upon the accumulated knowledge that I come across.

So, as much as one may enjoy being contrarian, counter-culture, or comfortably in a middle position, the simple reality is: religious people do indeed indoctrinate the uninitiated and secular people at least try to hold to a method of education instead.

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
~Izel
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like Erxomai's post
24-08-2012, 12:14 PM
RE: "Indoctrination"
I am so not interested in having another dictionary fight. They are ever so tedious. Please don't read any further into that than what it is. The lack of desire to expend energy waxing semantically.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
24-08-2012, 12:25 PM
RE: "Indoctrination"
I don't believe in math. Stop pushing your belief about addition on me. Just prove to me that zero exists. See you can't. Your math religion is bullshit.

The old gods are dead, let's invent some new ones before something really bad happens.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Thomas's post
24-08-2012, 12:28 PM
RE: "Indoctrination"
(24-08-2012 11:19 AM)Ghost Wrote:  Hey, Seasbury.

Quote:What might irk you is the arrogance (or something along those lines) that is associated with breaking free of those bonds.

What in the sam hill would give you that idea? Not only is that inaccurate, but it has sum zero to do with what I'm saying. Truly bizarre.

And by definition, every single child on the planet is indoctrinated. It's called being raised. What is implied in this particular use of the term is that the religious are somehow doing something that other parents are not. Which is preposterous. That's the issue that I have. That the word is being given connotative meaning that implies that one group is doing something special when everyone is doing it, as well as being imbued with the implication that what they are doing is somehow sinister <twists moustache and adjusts monocle>.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt

How is teaching a child a bunch of lies as truth a good thing?

Maybe we should call indoctrination, my childs walk with Christ?

Member of the Cult of Reason

The atheist is a man who destroys the imaginary things which afflict the human race, and so leads men back to nature, to experience and to reason.
-Baron d'Holbach-
Bitcion:1DNeQMswMdvx4xLPP6qNE7RkeTwXGC7Bzp
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
24-08-2012, 12:28 PM
RE: "Indoctrination"
I think we're all missing the point here.

As Erxomai said; indoctrination basically, in general, is teaching someone to adhere to a doctrine. We can argue specific definitions all day long; pick them apart, examine every word that makes up the definition, then cross-reference them with other definitions...but ultimately, without being complicated, "indoctrination" is as I have just said - teaching someone to adhere to a particular doctrine.

Atheism is not a doctrine. It is not a set of rules and regulations. It is not a lifestyle. Just as each of us has said at one point or another in debate with creationists; "Atheism is, quite simply, the lack of belief in God(s)".

Thus, it is not something into which a person can be indoctrinated. In fact, if I may speak anecdotally, the only time I hear of people being "indoctrinated into Atheism" is from religious individuals who know fuck-all about what Atheism really is.

Through profound pain comes profound knowledge.
Ridi, Pagliaccio, sul tuo amore infranto! Ridi del duol, che t'avvelena il cor!
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Misanthropik's post
24-08-2012, 12:34 PM
RE: "Indoctrination"
(24-08-2012 12:14 PM)Ghost Wrote:  I am so not interested in having another dictionary fight. They are ever so tedious. Please don't read any further into that than what it is. The lack of desire to expend energy waxing semantically.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
You decided to cherry-pick the definition of one dictionary to suit your argument, ignoring the other definitions of your very own source. Additionally, being faced with all the other dictionary definitions that don't match yours, you proclaim that you're not interested in the discussion anymore. It shouldn't be that hard to admit that you were wrong once in your lifetime, Ghost. Drinking Beverage

https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe...80&bih=913

[Image: 7oDSbD4.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Vosur's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: