Infinite Regress
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30-01-2013, 01:39 PM
RE: Infinite Regress
(30-01-2013 01:35 PM)Chas Wrote:  I'm not saying you believe there is one, just that if there is one then where did it come from?
I don't know.

(30-01-2013 01:35 PM)Chas Wrote:  Your answer to Matt doesn't make sense.
Matt's question: "If there is a creator of the universe, does shklee necessarily require a creator?"
My response: "No, I don't think that the Creator of the Universe necessarily requires a Creator himself."

How does my answer not make sense? It's pretty much the most direct possible answer to his question.

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30-01-2013, 08:20 PM
RE: Infinite Regress



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30-01-2013, 08:21 PM
RE: Infinite Regress
In this universe we have observed what we would describe as the beginnings of our universe.
We observe how stars form, how solar systems form, how galaxies form and in the case of our own planet how life can begin from simple inorganic molecules, self replicate and through evolution a myriad number of life forms have given rise.

We don't propose that a human being started life on this planet billions of years ago. Why not ?
Why don't we suggest that this is a possible idea for how life started on this planet because humans are a product within that evolutionary chain.

One link within the chain cannot start the chain.

Any god that might exist, will be a byproduct from something else, from someplace else.
Complexity is a byproduct. It just doesn't come into existence by magic.

And that's what the idea of a god is all about - MAGIC.

When has magic EVER been an answer for anything ?

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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30-01-2013, 08:35 PM (This post was last modified: 30-01-2013 08:47 PM by fstratzero.)
RE: Infinite Regress
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http://www.esa.int/Our_Activities/Space_...s_Universe

The red band in the middle is our galaxy.

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30-01-2013, 08:45 PM
RE: Infinite Regress
alot of people have a problem with the idea that the universe came from nothing. i dont know maybe it did, maybe it didnt. i mean maybe it was always here. maybe it doesnt actually exist, who knows?
the accepted idea today is that the universe had a beginning so lets assume thats correct.. lets also assume that god exists and that he created the universe. what materials did he use to create the universe and where did he get them? did he get them from nothing?
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02-02-2013, 04:51 PM
RE: Infinite Regress
Hey, Chas.

Vosur's statement and Occam's Razor have nothing in common whatsoever... laddie.

Also, his saying that a creator does not necessarily require a creator in no way obligates him to have an definitive opinion on where a creator of the universe comes from.

Hey, Asceptic.

I cannot decipher what you're driving at.

Hey, Vosur.

Very good use of "what in the actual fuck are you talking about" Cool

I thought your answer was about as straight up as it gets.

Hey, Rahn.

Quote:Complexity is a byproduct. It just doesn't come into existence by magic.

Within this universe, I agree with both statements wholeheartedly.

I do not, however, assume that they apply to a creator of the universe.

If the multiverse theory is correct then the rules that govern our universe are unique to our universe (because the value they found for the amount of dark energy in our universe was 0.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000​00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000138; and that this number would necessarily be different in other universes, meaning the rules must also be different). Our universe's rules exist nowhere else. So if that's the case from universe to universe and if a creator of the universe came from a place of non-universeness, then why would we assume that our rules apply to shkler?

Quote:And that's what the idea of a god is all about - MAGIC.

Basically, yeah.

Hey, DD.

Quote:alot of people have a problem with the idea that the universe came from
nothing. i dont know maybe it did, maybe it didnt. i mean maybe it was
always here. maybe it doesnt actually exist, who knows?

the accepted idea today is that the universe had a beginning so lets
assume thats correct.. lets also assume that god exists and that he
created the universe. what materials did he use to create the universe
and where did he get them? did he get them from nothing?

Nice.

Way to be open minded Cool

I am 100% willing to assume that the universe had a beginning. All of the evidence seems to indicate that.

I am now assuming that God exists and that he created the universe.

To answer your question, I have no fucking idea whatsoever.

My understanding is that the universe began as a singularity, a point of infinite density and zero mass and that it exploded outward in a tremendous release of energy and that over time, the four fundamental forces de-unified, the first matter began to form, then skip ahead and suns formed, then they blew up and released the more complex elements and then we have us.

I doubt there's a singularity store, so I guess that's out.

My guess would be that he got the singularity wherever one gets singularities or, he made it himself (I hear he got both an A and an Ω in shop class).

The thing that I have to figure is that if God made space-time, then he had to come from outside of space-time. So the rules of that "place" (as if any of our myriad understandings of space even apply) are necessarily different from our own. So I don't think "did he get it from nothing" even applies because nothing is a limitation of our universe's space-time.

This is one of the reasons infinite regress makes no sense to me. We assume linearity when we have absolutely no reason to assume that that is the case.

Hey, fst.

That was an exciting video and quite accurate. Thank you for that.

He pointed out one of the dilemmas that I always grapple with. Why did the universe come into being? I'm good with how. The why still eludes me.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
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05-02-2013, 07:39 PM
RE: Infinite Regress
(02-02-2013 04:51 PM)Ghost Wrote:  Hey, Chas.

Vosur's statement and Occam's Razor have nothing in common whatsoever... laddie.

Also, his saying that a creator does not necessarily require a creator in no way obligates him to have an definitive opinion on where a creator of the universe comes from.

Hey, Asceptic.

I cannot decipher what you're driving at.

Hey, Vosur.

Very good use of "what in the actual fuck are you talking about" Cool

I thought your answer was about as straight up as it gets.

Hey, Rahn.

Quote:Complexity is a byproduct. It just doesn't come into existence by magic.

Within this universe, I agree with both statements wholeheartedly.

I do not, however, assume that they apply to a creator of the universe.

If the multiverse theory is correct then the rules that govern our universe are unique to our universe (because the value they found for the amount of dark energy in our universe was 0.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000​00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000138; and that this number would necessarily be different in other universes, meaning the rules must also be different). Our universe's rules exist nowhere else. So if that's the case from universe to universe and if a creator of the universe came from a place of non-universeness, then why would we assume that our rules apply to shkler?

Quote:And that's what the idea of a god is all about - MAGIC.

Basically, yeah.

Hey, DD.

Quote:alot of people have a problem with the idea that the universe came from
nothing. i dont know maybe it did, maybe it didnt. i mean maybe it was
always here. maybe it doesnt actually exist, who knows?

the accepted idea today is that the universe had a beginning so lets
assume thats correct.. lets also assume that god exists and that he
created the universe. what materials did he use to create the universe
and where did he get them? did he get them from nothing?

Nice.

Way to be open minded Cool

I am 100% willing to assume that the universe had a beginning. All of the evidence seems to indicate that.

I am now assuming that God exists and that he created the universe.

To answer your question, I have no fucking idea whatsoever.

My understanding is that the universe began as a singularity, a point of infinite density and zero mass and that it exploded outward in a tremendous release of energy and that over time, the four fundamental forces de-unified, the first matter began to form, then skip ahead and suns formed, then they blew up and released the more complex elements and then we have us.

I doubt there's a singularity store, so I guess that's out.

My guess would be that he got the singularity wherever one gets singularities or, he made it himself (I hear he got both an A and an Ω in shop class).

The thing that I have to figure is that if God made space-time, then he had to come from outside of space-time. So the rules of that "place" (as if any of our myriad understandings of space even apply) are necessarily different from our own. So I don't think "did he get it from nothing" even applies because nothing is a limitation of our universe's space-time.

This is one of the reasons infinite regress makes no sense to me. We assume linearity when we have absolutely no reason to assume that that is the case.

Hey, fst.

That was an exciting video and quite accurate. Thank you for that.

He pointed out one of the dilemmas that I always grapple with. Why did the universe come into being? I'm good with how. The why still eludes me.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
How is a more accurate question. Some suggest a quantum fluctuation, a bounce just before reaching singularity, or multiple universes...

Hard to say at this point until we get a better form of relativity that doesn't break down to infinity.

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06-02-2013, 12:23 AM (This post was last modified: 06-02-2013 03:06 AM by EvolutionKills.)
RE: Infinite Regress
(02-02-2013 04:51 PM)Ghost Wrote:  Hey, DD.

Quote:alot of people have a problem with the idea that the universe came from
nothing. i dont know maybe it did, maybe it didnt. i mean maybe it was
always here. maybe it doesnt actually exist, who knows?

the accepted idea today is that the universe had a beginning so lets
assume thats correct.. lets also assume that god exists and that he
created the universe. what materials did he use to create the universe
and where did he get them? did he get them from nothing?

Nice.

Way to be open minded Cool

I am 100% willing to assume that the universe had a beginning. All of the evidence seems to indicate that.

I am now assuming that God exists and that he created the universe.

To answer your question, I have no fucking idea whatsoever.

My understanding is that the universe began as a singularity, a point of infinite density and zero mass and that it exploded outward in a tremendous release of energy and that over time, the four fundamental forces de-unified, the first matter began to form, then skip ahead and suns formed, then they blew up and released the more complex elements and then we have us.

I doubt there's a singularity store, so I guess that's out.

My guess would be that he got the singularity wherever one gets singularities or, he made it himself (I hear he got both an A and an Ω in shop class).

The thing that I have to figure is that if God made space-time, then he had to come from outside of space-time. So the rules of that "place" (as if any of our myriad understandings of space even apply) are necessarily different from our own. So I don't think "did he get it from nothing" even applies because nothing is a limitation of our universe's space-time.

This is one of the reasons infinite regress makes no sense to me. We assume linearity when we have absolutely no reason to assume that that is the case.


Anyone else notice the incongruity of praising and claiming one's own 'open mindedness' then following it up with a bunch of assumptions?

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06-02-2013, 07:01 AM
RE: Infinite Regress
Hey, EKills.

Do you notice me saying fuck you?

PS: Lrn2r33d
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06-02-2013, 07:21 AM
RE: Infinite Regress
(06-02-2013 07:01 AM)Ghost Wrote:  Hey, EKills.

Do you notice me saying fuck you?

PS: Lrn2r33d


Sorry, could you say that again? A bit louder perhaps?

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