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Infinite Universe Afterlife Theory
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07-08-2015, 11:42 AM
RE: Infinite Universe Afterlife Theory
(01-08-2015 03:21 PM)Manicon Wrote:  Hello, this is my first post.

I just wanted to talk about a belief that I currently have. I'm not sure if it's rational or something to rationalize my fear of death.

My current belief is similar to reincarnation. However, instead of being reborn in the sense of time moving forward, we would be reborn at any time and place within the omniverse.

The reason I believe this is because-- we're alive right now. Living with a consciousness means that we have evolved in an environment that has caused us to comprehend life.

If Infinite Universe theory is actually true. Then that would mean that there are universes that would be able to sustain life and create consciousness.

If I have any logical fallacies, please let me know. I would love to discuss this more in detail.

Well the fallacy is that it is an arbitrary belief, not supported by any evidence. Also I think there is the problem of reasoning from undesirable consequences. You stated that you have a fear of death and so you want to believe that there is something after death, that you will go on in some way. Neither of these is rational.

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17-05-2017, 12:54 AM (This post was last modified: 17-05-2017 01:19 AM by Me=NonexistentForeverAfterLife.)
RE: Infinite Universe Afterlife Theory
My thoughts related to this topic:

How do we know the state of being nothing at all after death is an infinite duration, not a finite duration?

I get that consciousness is lost at death. Consciousness is the result of particles/matter being in specific arrangements and after death those specific arrangements are scrambled. Neuroscientifically, as the brain dies, cell by cell, the mind dies with it. The amount of damage corresponding to the amount of mind lost. No immaterial soul, nothing surviving, total annihilation.

But how do we know that the state of undergoing nothingness/nonexistence/oblivion/nonbeing after death is infinite in duration – what demands one would never start existing again randomly out of nothing? In the same way the universe has been stated as plausibly coming out of nothing. What is prohibitory to a self/connectome coming into existence again if we can’t be aware of all the possible ways infinity will express itself?

For instance, perhaps this Boltzmann’s Brain type recurrence could happen during the infinity after the heat death of the universe. Heat death equilibrium may not actually come to pass (physicist Sean Carroll has verbalized how it’s not a guarantee the Big Freeze will occur on his blog) and some other fate of the universe could be, allowing unknown possibilities. Additionally, we don’t know if the universe has always existed or if it had a beginning (Again, expressed by Sean Carroll in his newest book).

Random fluctuations of vacuum energy after the heat death of the universe could pop a universe into existence or pop your atomic arrangement/neuronal configuration into existence, allowing the chance of you reoccurring. With a universe that’s infinite in spacial and temporal extent, everything that’s physically possible for it happens an infinity of times. So maybe there’s not an eternal oblivion, but a temporary oblivion for us after we die (and before we were born).

Also, it doesn’t remind me that it’s a necessity for something to have to survive of you after death, for you to exist after death. Nothing has to be carried along or continue that’s you, provided the universe/reality has the nature of popping things into existence repeatedly into infinitude/producing endless copies of everything existing ever.



Books should be done which focus on the physics case against an afterlife, now that the neuroscientific case against existing when the brain dies is pretty complete. I definitely agree with the neuroscientific consensus that consciousness ceases at death. But what I’m not sure about is that it ceases forever at death. It seems like an assumption that once consciousness is shown to stop existing at brain death, that that entails it permanently stops existing at brain death.

We don’t know for sure what happened at and before the big bang. The universe may have existed for infinity before 13.7 billion years when it appeared to pop into existence with nothing before it. We also don’t know how the universe will end. There’s plausible ideas but it’s still up in the air. Heat death equilibrium where nothing happens may not be eternal. A random of fluctuation of vacuum energy may come from the void and bring a new universe into existence.

My point is that considering we don’t know either direction, backwards in time before the big bang and infinitely forward in time after the universe appears like it’ll die, we can’t say whether the individual existed before its present experience called life. We also can’t say whether the individual will exist after it’s present existence it’s experiencing.

The infinity before birth is indeterminate, as to whether you existed (possibly zero times, possibly three times, or possibly a beginningless amount of times). The infinity after death is indeterminate as whether you’ll exist again (same thing, possibly zero times, possibly 2,622 times or possibly endless times).

When I say “you” existing again after death I don’t mean your identical connectome, necessarily. But just that the experiencer that was a particular arrangement of atoms called a human is the same experiencer as whatever physical system it may be after it was that particular connectome.

I actually would like to be entirely confident that I’ll be irrevocably annihilated for all eternity at death. Because I feel like it’s probably the case of what’ll happen. But I just feel like too much is being left out by only using neuroscience to answer the question.



If the exact arrangement between the atoms in your brain and body were recreated after you died, how do you know for sure it wouldn’t be you that comes back into consciousness? What in science tells us it would be someone who isn’t you, someone else who simply experiences themselves exactly as if they were you?



I can accept you’re lost at death (consciousness can’t exist without sufficient blood flow and when the body dies no blood is pumped to the brain, not to mention the brain itself is dead anyway, and, your atoms are left in a disordered arrangement which isn’t conducive to permit consciousness to subsist), but what makes you permanently lost at death?

What stops a fluctuation of nothingness or the vacuum from popping you back into existence (perhaps in uncountable eons of time)? Exactly what is the self anyway? What makes you, YOU? To know whether you’ll exist after death, at any time after you die, you have to know exactly what you are, from a physics standpoint. If I popped into existence out of nothing once, why can’t it happen again, and again, and again? In a naturalistic, materialistic, scientific, physical sense – no spookiness or woo. The nature of infinity is that everything happens an infinite amount of times. Anything which isn’t ruled out by the laws of physics necessarily happens.

It’s not that I can’t accept the real world or live in the real world, rather, it feels like this question and topic, and related quandaries haven’t been delved into. It seems like people take it on faith that they cease to exist FOREVER once they die, with little backing evidence from the physics community. It’s really a physics question now, neuroscience has already made its case and it’s definitive. Now it’s physics’ turn.

So yeah, we're not even sure why consciousness exists, anywhere ever. As in, why shouldn't every organism's brain 'go on in the dark?' Like Wikipedia says: "Discovering and characterizing neural correlates does not offer a theory of consciousness that can explain how particular systems experience anything at all, or how and why they are associated with consciousness." For all we know physical reality could be inside of consciousness, not the other way around.
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17-05-2017, 08:39 AM
RE: Infinite Universe Afterlife Theory
I'm not sure how you could find evidence for this, I'm not even sure it's a falsifiable proposition.

I'd be charitable and say that maybe the universe could reintegrate itself through time in which the exact configuration of atoms that make up an individual will be reassembled.

But if this is the case, then why would it necessarily retain the specific consciousness of an individual from an earlier universal epoch?

What would be the mechanism that would control this?

How could we determine at what scale this duplication asserts itself?

Maybe another planet Earth would reintegrate, but the lifeforms on it would be different due to the random yet organized nature of evolution. That means there will never be another you, but there will be another Earth if it's at the planetary scale.

If it's at the human scale, there could be humans or another evolved primate on this planet, but it still wouldn't be you. It would have to be on the Planck scale itself on a precision guided rail of space-time that allows no configuration but the exact configuration of you and the neurons in your brain.

Even if it closely mirrored the neurons in your brain, if it doesn't EXACTLY mirror the neurons from the earlier epoch, then you might be different enough mentally that this reassembled person could look like you, but doesn't really think like you, so the basic individuality of who you were would be lost.

So there's a lot of unknown variables based on assumptions that have to be made to get to this reality of reincarnation.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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17-05-2017, 12:01 PM
RE: Infinite Universe Afterlife Theory
(17-05-2017 08:39 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  I'm not sure how you could find evidence for this, I'm not even sure it's a falsifiable proposition.

I'd be charitable and say that maybe the universe could reintegrate itself through time in which the exact configuration of atoms that make up an individual will be reassembled.

But if this is the case, then why would it necessarily retain the specific consciousness of an individual from an earlier universal epoch?

What would be the mechanism that would control this?

How could we determine at what scale this duplication asserts itself?

Maybe another planet Earth would reintegrate, but the lifeforms on it would be different due to the random yet organized nature of evolution. That means there will never be another you, but there will be another Earth if it's at the planetary scale.

If it's at the human scale, there could be humans or another evolved primate on this planet, but it still wouldn't be you. It would have to be on the Planck scale itself on a precision guided rail of space-time that allows no configuration but the exact configuration of you and the neurons in your brain.

Even if it closely mirrored the neurons in your brain, if it doesn't EXACTLY mirror the neurons from the earlier epoch, then you might be different enough mentally that this reassembled person could look like you, but doesn't really think like you, so the basic individuality of who you were would be lost.

So there's a lot of unknown variables based on assumptions that have to be made to get to this reality of reincarnation.

Well, lets say it does exactly mirror the neurons from the earlier epoch.
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17-05-2017, 01:35 PM
RE: Infinite Universe Afterlife Theory
(17-05-2017 12:01 PM)Me=NonexistentForeverAfterLife Wrote:  
(17-05-2017 08:39 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  I'm not sure how you could find evidence for this, I'm not even sure it's a falsifiable proposition.

I'd be charitable and say that maybe the universe could reintegrate itself through time in which the exact configuration of atoms that make up an individual will be reassembled.

But if this is the case, then why would it necessarily retain the specific consciousness of an individual from an earlier universal epoch?

What would be the mechanism that would control this?

How could we determine at what scale this duplication asserts itself?

Maybe another planet Earth would reintegrate, but the lifeforms on it would be different due to the random yet organized nature of evolution. That means there will never be another you, but there will be another Earth if it's at the planetary scale.

If it's at the human scale, there could be humans or another evolved primate on this planet, but it still wouldn't be you. It would have to be on the Planck scale itself on a precision guided rail of space-time that allows no configuration but the exact configuration of you and the neurons in your brain.

Even if it closely mirrored the neurons in your brain, if it doesn't EXACTLY mirror the neurons from the earlier epoch, then you might be different enough mentally that this reassembled person could look like you, but doesn't really think like you, so the basic individuality of who you were would be lost.

So there's a lot of unknown variables based on assumptions that have to be made to get to this reality of reincarnation.

Well, lets say it does exactly mirror the neurons from the earlier epoch.

Then you would indeed be reincarnated ad-infinitum, but it's not functionally different from non-existence. If you were perfectly reconstituted; and let's say we are living the billionth reincarnation of ourselves at this very moment. I don't remember anything of it, it doesn't give me any sense of immortality.

I live and die and repeat it infinitely but have no recollection of any past experiences. Ugh, that's a disappointment, it would be nice if we could actually remember and learn from previous epochs and know that we have lived before and know that we will live again with memories of this time.

There just isn't any evidence for this unfortunately and I don't know of any cosmologists that would propose this as a viable explanation for anything.

I don't see how such a phenomena would manifest itself in this universe in terms of evidence.

But who know? Maybe one day we will eventually find a way to pierce such barriers if they exist. That's a big if......

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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17-05-2017, 02:07 PM
RE: Infinite Universe Afterlife Theory
(17-05-2017 01:35 PM)TheInquisition Wrote:  
(17-05-2017 12:01 PM)Me=NonexistentForeverAfterLife Wrote:  Well, lets say it does exactly mirror the neurons from the earlier epoch.

Then you would indeed be reincarnated ad-infinitum, but it's not functionally different from non-existence. If you were perfectly reconstituted; and let's say we are living the billionth reincarnation of ourselves at this very moment. I don't remember anything of it, it doesn't give me any sense of immortality.

I live and die and repeat it infinitely but have no recollection of any past experiences. Ugh, that's a disappointment, it would be nice if we could actually remember and learn from previous epochs and know that we have lived before and know that we will live again with memories of this time.

There just isn't any evidence for this unfortunately and I don't know of any cosmologists that would propose this as a viable explanation for anything.

I don't see how such a phenomena would manifest itself in this universe in terms of evidence.

But who know? Maybe one day we will eventually find a way to pierce such barriers if they exist. That's a big if......

I guess don't worry, it stands to reason civilizations would come into existence in which allow the experience you were having in them to be already in this high-level of knowing. So therefore, you'll highly suspect you're eternal for most of your experience. It would be useful understanding this, if you wanted to do science, potentially. I think in a later century it will be standard here in society from philosophical logic to regard the world/universe/reality in this way, perhaps.
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19-05-2017, 09:46 AM
RE: Infinite Universe Afterlife Theory
(01-08-2015 03:21 PM)Manicon Wrote:  Hello, this is my first post.

I just wanted to talk about a belief that I currently have. I'm not sure if it's rational or something to rationalize my fear of death.

My current belief is similar to reincarnation. However, instead of being reborn in the sense of time moving forward, we would be reborn at any time and place within the omniverse.

The reason I believe this is because-- we're alive right now. Living with a consciousness means that we have evolved in an environment that has caused us to comprehend life.

If Infinite Universe theory is actually true. Then that would mean that there are universes that would be able to sustain life and create consciousness.

If I have any logical fallacies, please let me know. I would love to discuss this more in detail.

Interesting, for a time I've had this idea similar but not quiet. Mine steamed from the saying Atheists have 'We can't prove there is or isn't a God.'
This got me thinking, and a bit of humor involved. I see it as there are many religions, but yet each other offers something good as well as bad. From the Elephant in the Room theory, to this idea that every religions might be true, in the sense of this God who is all these deities in some way shape or form.
What you believe doesn't matter, because if there is a God, perhaps he's the one who created theses religions.
I'd say everyone gets the afterlife in some way or form. Heaven is divided into each area you could go as your afterlife. Depending on the person you were in life.


To simplify, Death is sitting there at a desk, reading the files of a dead person and letting doors open to certain afterlifes that they are eligible for.
Pretty funny huh? Big Grin

"Governments don't want well informed, well educated people capable of critical thinking That is against their interests.
They want obedient workers people who are just smart enough to run the machines and do the paperwork And just dumb enough to passively accept it."

- George Carlin
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07-11-2017, 08:57 PM
RE: Infinite Universe Afterlife Theory
I think consciousness is probably made by the brain.

But if a universe keeps getting born again for eternity, or if there are a infinite amount of universes, then sooner or later a universe should get created which for example has a black monkey somewhere in it.
And sooner or later a universe where i have consciousness should get created, even after my dead in this universe. And also in all other universes of course.
It doesn't matter if i would be dead in even the next 10^894 universes or whatever amount, it doesn't matter if i would be dead in 10^942 years or whatever amount of time. I would still instantly feel consciousness again because there is nothing which can measure time when he/she is dead.

Who knows how long i was dead before i got born and can witness all these fine tuned laws of physics in the universe for life, perfect conditions on earth for life, and my sperm winning the race?
It doesn't matter how long time i was dead, because only consciousness can experience consciousness, time, etc. The amount of time maybe even wouldn't be possible to write down with numbers

But i wouldn't need to be this same person, i could be a different living creature which feel consciousness again. And i wouldn't remember my past lives from other universes.

My common sense say that afterlife is inevitable if the universe is eternal (keeps getting born again).
And i do think universe is eternal.
It would explain alot, it makes perfect sense to me.
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08-11-2017, 12:11 AM
RE: Infinite Universe Afterlife Theory
Looks like the points I'd have raised have been covered already, so I'll just say welcome to the forum Smile

I have a website here which discusses the issues and terminology surrounding religion and atheism. It's hopefully user friendly to all.
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08-11-2017, 07:03 AM
RE: Infinite Universe Afterlife Theory
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