Infinite vs Finite Logic
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14-05-2017, 12:50 PM
RE: Infinite vs Finite Logic
Now please keep in mind that my irrational personality has the potential to change opinion on a point to point basis and mix in the fact that I can often find myself believing aspects of opposing arguments at the same time. It seems to me at this precise moment that existence must continue regardless of time, space or even having something present to experience existence. There was always a before and there will always be an after because there is the now.

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14-05-2017, 01:35 PM
RE: Infinite vs Finite Logic
I would say that there is nothing that must happen. All we can do is observe reality and try to predict and model it as best we can.

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14-05-2017, 08:13 PM
RE: Infinite vs Finite Logic
double post
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14-05-2017, 08:14 PM
RE: Infinite vs Finite Logic
(01-05-2017 04:48 PM)true scotsman Wrote:  It hurts my brain trying to think of what the edge of the universe would be like. Is it a line we can't cross like a force field? Is it a barbed wire fence? Or is the universe expanding at such a rate that we could never get there? I don't know.
Space isn't a container.

It's just a set of dimensions, it has no boundaries or edges.
However it is possible for out universe to be curved such that, if you go in a straight line, eventually you may end up back where you started.

Our expanding universe, if it started from a singularity and has been expanding for 14 billion years then it does have a size limit, because nothing can travel faster than the speed of light, but our universe is expanding everywhere, not just moving away from a center. Our universe looks the same from all directions, we cannot find any center.

Since Space and Time are dependent on mass and energy, then what exists beyond our expanding universe? If there were another expanding universe, would there be a path through space and time from one to another or are we isolated in bubbles because space time makes no sense outside of the influence of our energy/matter?

I think that we cannot physically move outside of the influence of our universe, because there is no outside. Without space time there is no place.
I also think there is no "inside" of a black hole. I don't think space time exists inside a blackhole. Matter comes together around the event horizon but never goes through because there is no inside. Euclidian space does not exist, so we don't have a need for an inside of the black hole. but then again I am wildly speculating.
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14-05-2017, 10:22 PM
RE: Infinite vs Finite Logic
My imagination is falling short here.I can't picture space and time in my mind.Fabric of space-time .What's that supposed to mean?
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14-05-2017, 10:32 PM
RE: Infinite vs Finite Logic
When you're dealing with advanced physics, time is not strictly linear. It becomes another dimension, rather than just a parameter that dictates the other three dimensions.

You might want to check out the theory of relativity. It's certainly a mind fuck. I clung to my own idea that time must still somehow be linear in the face of this for a long time, and only discarded my dogma relatively recently.

I can't get my head round it. Our imaginations aren't very well equipped for this kind of thing. I only briefly touched on it when I did A level physics and never took it further. We probably have some physicists here who can explain it much better.

I have a website here which discusses the issues and terminology surrounding religion and atheism. It's hopefully user friendly to all.
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14-05-2017, 10:45 PM
RE: Infinite vs Finite Logic
(14-05-2017 10:32 PM)Robvalue Wrote:  When you're dealing with advanced physics, time is not strictly linear. It becomes another dimension, rather than just a parameter that dictates the other three dimensions.

You might want to check out the theory of relativity. It's certainly a mind fuck. I clung to my own idea that time must still somehow be linear in the face of this for a long time, and only discarded my dogma relatively recently.

I can't get my head round it. Our imaginations aren't very well equipped for this kind of thing. I only briefly touched on it when I did A level physics and never took it further. We probably have some physicists here who can explain it much better.

I can't make sense of it.Any simple versions for me[layman]? If you can recommend something for me to read [or some video] to get the sense of it that would be great.
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14-05-2017, 11:20 PM
RE: Infinite vs Finite Logic
I haven't yet found anything to help me make sense of it I'm afraid! If I come across something I'll let you know. I bet someone here can provide something, there has to be some handy YouTube video somewhere. I'd just be randomly searching.

I have a website here which discusses the issues and terminology surrounding religion and atheism. It's hopefully user friendly to all.
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15-05-2017, 05:15 AM
RE: Infinite vs Finite Logic
(01-05-2017 04:26 PM)Saucy Jack Wrote:  I need someone smarter than me to tell me if I'm wrong about something that seems completely obvious.

Neil degrasse Tyson said on star talk that because we don't know how big the universe is, he says it is infinite. I think this is wrong. The answer is surely that we don't know.

Today I got into a debate in Facebook about this, where someone disagreed with me and stated that because we don't know that the universe is finite, it follows that it must be infinite. This has to be nonsense. The universe is finite or infinite whether we are able to find out or not.

Actually we have used trigonometry to measure the curvature of space-time, and the measurements show that there is a 99.6% chance (or something similar) that the universe is infinite. The results show that the universe is infinite, but the precision of the instruments have to be considered Smile

https://map.gsfc.nasa.gov/universe/uni_shape.html

And absence of evidence is not evidence of absence Tongue

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03-06-2017, 03:08 PM
RE: Infinite vs Finite Logic
If it rhymes then it is true!
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