"Intelligent" Design
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11-05-2011, 07:58 PM (This post was last modified: 11-05-2011 08:08 PM by Buddy Christ.)
"Intelligent" Design
I know there are ID snippets all over this site, in different posts and addressed here and there, but since Intelligent Design is just a synonym for Creationism... and Creationism is the name of the sub-forum, it seems appropriate that we converge all the arguments into a big steamy pile so we can direct future creationists to it.

The first response I usually hear against ID, before going into the philosophical or scientific aspects, is just to state that "for a perfect designer, God really sucks at designing things. This is the best God can do?"

I mean we are his most loved creation, everything that isn't us was created FOR us. We are his Mona Lisa, his Model T, his Printing Press. And yet anatomically, we look like the crayon scribblings of a drunken infant. We have useless body parts like tailbones, wisdom teeth, male nipples, and an appendix along with many more (20 Useless Body Parts).

We are also terribly designed as far as survival goes. We require energy every few hours, which we must obtain by eating the flesh of animals (which must be set on fire for a specific amount of time or else make us sick) or by eating certain plants (but only certain plants and only if altered and prepared a certain way). And grass, the most abundant plant on the plant... can't sustain us. In addition to constantly eating perishable foodstuffs, we must also drink water. But even though 70% of the planet is covered with water, we can't drink THAT water because its salt content can't be processed by our perfectly designed body.

Also, this food and water which we must constantly consume goes down the same tube that we use for breathing, so that frequently, this tube becomes blocked by food and we die (design flaw, anyone?). There's another beautifully designed feature. We must take in a chemical element called oxygen, process it, and then expel it every 3 seconds for duration of our entire life. And if something happens that impedes us from taking in oxygen, we die.

Then there's our skin. It's so thick that our body is constantly overheated and must start dumping it's precious water supply to cool down, and yet it's too thin to provide any protection from the cold environment that makes up most of the Earth.

Our cells are unstable and become cancerous with exposure to nature. Our teeth (our tools for eating and staying alive) rot and fall out (poor composition choice, God). Our body requires a flow of blood, which is provided by a fragile organ called the heart, and protected by the same worthless skin, which is easily punctured (couldn't shell out the dough for an exoskeleton, God?). The food we constantly take in can't be completely processed and so we must excrete it (God's perfectly designed body has a waste byproduct?). And our entire system is so susceptible to diseases and disorders that we regularly develop fatal diseases by the time we reach adulthood, which we then must attempt to cure ourselves.

And as far the whole Irreducible Complexity argument goes... nearly every body part that theists swoon over as being "too complex to have come about by chance" exists in a far superior form in the animals God put here as our playthings.






ID advocates claim that "if you find a watch lying on the ground, you immediately recognize that the complexity of such a device couldn't have just come about by itself and so the watch must have been designed." Well that's because we are aware that watches HAVE designers. We know that watches are made by watchmakers. That doesn't mean that all things that seem complex are designed. Snowflakes, stalactites, diamonds, lightning, sand dunes. These are all examples of complex things that appear to have a designed, but in fact just occur through natural chaos. Also, watches are not living organisms. They do not reproduce, they are not subject to natural selection, and they do not mutate. Therefore, we know that the watch exists how it has always existed, and so we conclude that it is likely that someone placed the cogs and parts in their necessary location.

ALSO, complexity is not a requisite of design. You can either one without the other.

This is all off the top of my head and we haven't even started in with the deeper, philosophical parts yet. But I figure I'll give others some input while I eat a ham sandwich... while I hold my breath long enough for the clumps of flesh to pass by my windpipe before I begin sucking in the "necessary for life" O2 element while my body begins separating the digestible material from the waste... and all the while my cholesterol rises and I inch that much closer to death. If there were a designer, I would conclude from my observations that we were designed to die.




"Ain't got no last words to say, yellow streak right up my spine. The gun in my mouth was real and the taste blew my mind."

"We see you cry. We turn your head. Then we slap your face. We see you try. We see you fail. Some things never change."
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11-05-2011, 09:15 PM
RE: "Intelligent" Design
Alright, ham sandwich devoured.

Now let's talk about the universe that was "created for us." Instead of just giving us light, God created a huge, chaotic, magnetic, nuclear fireball that randomly shoots solar flares at us, damages our eyes when looked at, and causes skin cancer. And instead of putting the earth stationary near the sun, he spun the earth and flung it around the fireball, creating the constant possibility that the Earth might break free of the gravity of the sun, fly off into space, and kill us all. The fireball also has a time limit. At some point in the future, the star that is the sun will "die" and become either a black hole or a supernova, destroying anything near it.

The Lord also created so much space and dark matter and dark energy and emptiness and random unknown sh!t that trying to describe the vastness of it all is futile and does no justice to the sheer magnitude of the universe. Then he created billions of planets and scattered them randomly throughout the universe. But it's all for us! We make up such negligible percentage of the universe that's it's essentially impossible to accurate calculate. Maybe that's why God hasn't appeared to us in so long; he spilled all his other planets all over the universe and is now searching through them going "shit shit, which one is earth? oh man I messed up big."

And as far as the "well how come the earth is in a perfect place then? Any closer to the sun and we'd cook, any further away and we'd freeze." ...actually, I'm going to go to bed, so watch part 1 of about 37 videos by Thunderf00t "Why Do People Laugh At Creationists"





And I shall continue this on the morrow.

"Ain't got no last words to say, yellow streak right up my spine. The gun in my mouth was real and the taste blew my mind."

"We see you cry. We turn your head. Then we slap your face. We see you try. We see you fail. Some things never change."
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11-05-2011, 09:32 PM
 
RE: "Intelligent" Design
I like the pat response ID folks give when I ask them what created the Designer? (god)
He's always been! They say. Yesh, that's a valid scientific theory! I say let's start teaching it in day care for newborns. Smile


Intelligent Design Comics & Cartoons


[Image: 2006-03-11.gif]
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12-05-2011, 03:23 AM
RE: "Intelligent" Design
If I had been Earth's designer and had intended the entire Earth and everything on it (setting aside the rest of the universe for now) to be for man's benefit, I don't think I would have come up with the malaria-carrying mosquito, poisonous mushrooms that look just like the safe-to-eat ones, jellyfish, tornadoes, hurricanes, earthquakes, floods, droughts, heat waves, blizzards, freezing rain, and all of the other things that randomly kill people on a daily basis.

I suppose someone might argue that the population must be kept from getting out of control or we'd all starve to death from lack of resources, so God culls the heard through all of these nifty inventions like leprosy, leukemia, tarantulas, and rattlesnakes, but as the great designer, why wouldn't he merely make it so difficult for us to reproduce that our numbers could never outstrip the planet's ability to support us?

I think it's time the word "intelligent" be uncoupled from the word "designer" when one refers to that capricious character who gave us genital warts, cataracts, and necrophilia along with the ability to cultivate a banana that fits into our hand.

The way to see by Faith, is to shut the eye of Reason. - Ben Franklin
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12-05-2011, 09:19 AM
 
RE: "Intelligent" Design
I think that God forgot to think about the oxigen we breath is the main guilty of the oxidation of our tissues and that's the way we become old and die....
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13-05-2011, 02:46 AM
RE: "Intelligent" Design
[Image: 2436053179_14237715a3.jpg]

[Image: 1302553609-creationism.gif]

And creationists and ID-iots still wonder why we laugh at them...

"The tendency to turn human judgments into divine commands makes religion one of the most dangerous forces in the world.”
-Georgia Harkness.

"La fe es patrimonio de los pendejos. (Faith is patrimony of the dumbfucks)."
-Diego Rivera
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13-05-2011, 07:17 AM
RE: "Intelligent" Design
Would be fun to try and get malevolent design, incompetent design and incompetent malevolent design taught whenever intelligent design is. You take the evidence for intelligent design *tumbleweed* and a 1000 page list of every virus, bacteria, fungus, prion, micro organism that causes illness, all possible genetic defects, all aparts of the body that are 'engineered' poorly (for every organism cute enough to care about, not just humans... "God tortures bunnies, kittens, goslings and puppies")

all atrocious things committed by organisms in nature.

seems like 'evidence' for malevolent or incompetent design to me
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13-05-2011, 08:07 AM (This post was last modified: 13-05-2011 08:11 AM by Filox.)
RE: "Intelligent" Design
I found a great picture for all the religions and I'm gonna put it here, because I have no more comments on Creationism and ID, I tried to ask my questions to numerous people here, and nobody ever bothered to answer them, because I was very specific, and they could not give me an answer. So this is my opinion and comment to all of them.

The title of the picture is: TO BE DIFFERENT! and the name of the book (translated) is SCIENCE...

[Image: 22.jpg]

[Image: a6505fe8.jpg]
I have a theory that the truth is never told during the nine-to-five hours.
-Hunter S. Thompson
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13-05-2011, 09:43 AM
RE: "Intelligent" Design
I enjoy the "unintelligent design" examples. I may have said this one on the forum before but...the rabbit. I believe this was an example used by the late great Stephen Jay Gould when asked to think of an "unintelligent design." Basically our digestion system works by first grinding up the food in the mouth into smaller bits, thereby increasing surface area so that when introduced into the stomach this organ can break down the raw material further. After the stomach has broken the food products down it then passes into the intestines that absorb the nutrients and calories from the food product and pass the excess material out as waste...but not in the rabbit. The rabbit's intestines precede its stomach. This means that when it first consumes some food product (how about a carrot for a humorous visual) and it passes through the intestines first it is unable to absorb any valuable nutrients from it. This means that it must consume the waste carrot (fecal carrot product) in order for it to be processed enough for the intestines to obtain any nutritional value from it. It is smart enough not to eat the poop of its poop and domesticated rabbits eat preprocessed pellets but still...being designed to eat poo? Sounds like a crappy design to me!

Another good (poor?) design is the panda (side note: "Of Pandas and People" is an ID book that telegraphs a very poorly designed animal on its cover. Can you say Irony?). Pandas are bears and are therefore in the Order: Carnivora. This means its digestive system is well equipped to handle meat. The length of the intestines is shorter because it is easier to break down meat than plants (the whole cellulose thing). The panda does not eat meat though...it prefers bamboo. This means its digestive system is so inefficient at extracting nutritional value from the bamboo that it has to eat nearly every waking hour in order to obtain enough energy to survive. It also has PAWS! It has a protrusion from its wrist that helps it to strip the bamboo but it cannot grip the bamboo well at all with its paws so it struggles to even eat the plant in the first place!!!!

We could keep this going forever with the appendix, wisdom teeth, tonsils, blind organisms with eyes, etc...etc...

Is this place still a shithole run by a dumbass calvinist?
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13-05-2011, 04:13 PM
RE: "Intelligent" Design
I've posed the question to theists before: "If you truly believe that this life is meaningless and only the eternal afterlife matters, then why not baptize your babies and then kill them? (Lethal injection or something) By doing so, you would be sending the child straight to heaven without all the temptations of life or even the possibility of hell. The person doing the killing can ask forgiveness immediately after and be free of sin within seconds of the deed." I usually get a response along the lines of "well God wants us to experience life and enjoy everything it has to offer."

If this is so, then why are babies constantly born with serious disabilities and diseases, some that cripple and some that outright kill before the child even reaches adulthood? God wanted them to have a taste of life, but just enough to experience a tortured existence?


And Filox, do you mean you asked other creationists on here? Cause if the atheists refused to answer, I would find that very unusual.

"Ain't got no last words to say, yellow streak right up my spine. The gun in my mouth was real and the taste blew my mind."

"We see you cry. We turn your head. Then we slap your face. We see you try. We see you fail. Some things never change."
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