Intelligent Design
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21-02-2016, 11:28 PM
RE: Intelligent Design
(21-02-2016 09:06 PM)BlackEyedGhost Wrote:  For this forum, I'm defining "Intelligent Design" as the idea that life was originally either created or seeded on this planet by some intelligent source.

It is my stance that this is a valid possibility and shouldn't be discredited without proof.

The evidence I claim supports this stance is the complexity of life forms as we know. The human brain is the most complex bit of "machinery" in the known universe, with man-made (intelligently designed) things only recently having any sort of comparable complexity.

I realize this is far from a popular view in this forum, but I none-the-less hold it. I created this forum so people would have a place to tell me how stupid I am without junking up other forums.
By this logic you must consider it possible that the universe is a faded bumper sticker on a Subaru station wagon in the parking lot of a Walmart. There is no proof that it isn't so we shouldn't discredit it without proof, right?

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21-02-2016, 11:50 PM
RE: Intelligent Design
(21-02-2016 11:28 PM)true scotsman Wrote:  By this logic you must consider it possible that the universe is a faded bumper sticker on a Subaru station wagon in the parking lot of a Walmart. There is no proof that it isn't so we shouldn't discredit it without proof, right?

Mate, it's a Honda.

Glad we cleared that up. Wink

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
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22-02-2016, 02:02 AM
RE: Intelligent Design
Wow, people here are assholes. I'm seriously only going to respond to people who argue their points without the unnecessary number of ad hominems I'm seeing.
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22-02-2016, 02:08 AM
RE: Intelligent Design
(21-02-2016 09:44 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  Until the existence of some intelligent agency capable of performing this act is established, this is only a "valid possibility" in the same way that the existence of a wizard colony in the Alpha Centauri system is a valid possibility.
This is a good argument. Well done.
Quote:This is not evidence for your conclusion.
This is not a good argument due to the lack of explanation. It's merely an opinion, a perspective.
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22-02-2016, 02:15 AM
RE: Intelligent Design
(21-02-2016 10:08 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  You then utterly failed to substantiate this assertion of possibility.
I've used this same argument before and the response I got was something akin to: "Just because you lack imagination doesn't mean it's impossible."
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22-02-2016, 02:18 AM
RE: Intelligent Design
Hello. Smile

What I think you've failed to note, BlackEyedGhost, is that your initial opening post and subsequent messages are little more than opinion(s).

I and others have asked you to expand upon, or give hints to,

(a) What you actually mean by 'Intelligent design'.

As you seem to be bouncing between evolution and abiogenesis.

(b) Any sort of way/mechanism/idea/concept for how one might even begin to work out if something found in nature were 'designed' or not. Or, to put it another way. What you consider constitutes 'design' as it might appear should we come across such.

So far just saying "I think 'X' is really likely and that's as far as I'm going to talk about 'X'." is... pretty pointless.

I actually think the Harry Potter books are highly over rated and there have been other contemporary fantasy stories written by other artists which both explore far more interesting ideas within their fantasy, such as how the characters actually function, learn etc with such fantastic elements within their reality. (A lot of the books by 'Jeniffer Fallon' I would offer as an example)
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22-02-2016, 02:23 AM
RE: Intelligent Design
(21-02-2016 10:22 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  No, you didn't. You provided a non sequitur comment that offered no support to your original assertion, then claimed it was evidence.

The complexity of life is in no way evidence of intelligent design, or even of the possibility of it.

Not even a little.
Are you unable to understand how complexity could imply an intelligent source? If you look at words on a page, you think they're there because someone put them there rather than because someone spilled ink. Genetic code IS words in its own way. So, how is it that when we look at binary code we think it has an intelligent source, but when we look at the base-4 code in our genome we HAVE TO think it sprouted naturally?
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22-02-2016, 02:30 AM
RE: Intelligent Design
(21-02-2016 10:57 PM)Paleophyte Wrote:  
(21-02-2016 10:00 PM)BlackEyedGhost Wrote:  I understand the concept of evolution very well. This argument isn't counter to evolution, but simply a possible starting point for it.

And yet earlier you're using the complexity of the human brain for evidence of this. That's a bit of a leap from abiogenesis. Makes you look a bit disingenuous too.
Wondered if anyone would catch that. Well done. I almost went back and used the complexity of DNA within even the most simple single-celled organisms as my example instead, but decided it wasn't worth the effort. I also almost didn't respond to you because of your overly condescending tone, but you made a good valid point with this last part which needed addressed.
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22-02-2016, 02:48 AM (This post was last modified: 22-02-2016 02:57 AM by BlackEyedGhost.)
RE: Intelligent Design
(22-02-2016 02:18 AM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  Hello. Smile

What I think you've failed to note, BlackEyedGhost, is that your initial opening post and subsequent messages are little more than opinion(s).
In my mind, ID as a possibility is a fact. I realize numerous people disagree with me, but I've yet to encounter convincing evidence which proves life could not have been started by an intelligent source.
Quote:I and others have asked you to expand upon, or give hints to,

(a) What you actually mean by 'Intelligent design'.

As you seem to be bouncing between evolution and abiogenesis.
I'm referring to the original source of life on Earth, which could be thought of as abiogenesis. I realize my original example wasn't great since the human brain is derived after evoution, but even the simplest single-cell organisms have a great deal of complexity, so the complexity argument remains.
Quote:(b) Any sort of way/mechanism/idea/concept for how one might even begin to work out if something found in nature were 'designed' or not. Or, to put it another way. What you consider constitutes 'design' as it might appear should we come across such.
I addressed this a bit in another post when I talked about how genetic code is like computer code. When we read computer code we automatically know it's man-made (intelligently designed), but when we look at genetic code, it's not uncommon for people to completely reject the possibility that it had any sort of intelligent influence, which seems like a double-standard without further evidence.
Quote:So far just saying "I think 'X' is really likely and that's as far as I'm going to talk about 'X'." is... pretty pointless.
I didn't particularly want to talk about this topic, but the moment I mentioned my stance on this topic everyone seemed to make it their personal mission to belittle me and prove just how wrong I am, so I made a forum for them to do so.
Quote:I actually think the Harry Potter books are highly over rated and there have been other contemporary fantasy stories written by other artists which both explore far more interesting ideas within their fantasy, such as how the characters actually function, learn etc with such fantastic elements within their reality. (A lot of the books by 'Jeniffer Fallon' I would offer as an example)
Thanks for that unnecessary bit of ... whatever that was.
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22-02-2016, 02:58 AM
RE: Intelligent Design
(22-02-2016 02:02 AM)BlackEyedGhost Wrote:  Wow, people here are assholes. I'm seriously only going to respond to people who argue their points without the unnecessary number of ad hominems I'm seeing.

In other words: "I cannot back anything I say by using evidence. My guesswork and hope are enough!"

You're a fucking idiot.

That's me being an Aussie you dumb motherfucker.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
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