Intelligent design it is
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25-06-2015, 06:47 AM
Intelligent design it is
I was just watching some nature videos. I never cease to be amazed at the finely tuned life forms - how it all meshes together to work as a whole. One thing feeds another, or benefits it in some way.

It most certainly is intelligent design.

That is, it is designed by the combined levels of intelligence that resides in each living thing, always striving for a better life, always adjusting, always improving it's fit into the whole.

Evolution is an awesome thing!

And yes, I think there is a level of intelligence in all living things - plants too. I define intelligence here as the ability to evaluate one's surroundings and taking steps to improve adaptation.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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25-06-2015, 06:50 AM
RE: Intelligent design it is
(25-06-2015 06:47 AM)Dom Wrote:  I was just watching some nature videos. I never cease to be amazed at the finely tuned life forms - how it all meshes together to work as a whole. One thing feeds another, or benefits it in some way.

It most certainly is intelligent design.

That is, it is designed by the combined levels of intelligence that resides in each living thing, always striving for a better life, always adjusting, always improving it's fit into the whole.

Evolution is an awesome thing!

And yes, I think there is a level of intelligence in all living things - plants too. I define intelligence here as the ability to evaluate one's surroundings and taking steps to improve adaptation.

But how do animals or plants 'take steps to improve adaptation'?

The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
"Anti-environmentalism is like standing in front of a forest and going 'quick kill them they're coming right for us!'" - Jake Farr-Wharton, The Imaginary Friend Show.
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25-06-2015, 06:56 AM
RE: Intelligent design it is
It happens naturally.

I once saw a goat take revenge on a farm hand who mistreated it. The goat waited until the guy came home drunk. The goat was hiding. The drunk turned his back and BAM!

The goat got away and the guy never knew what happened.

Once while scuba diving I spent about 5 minutes playing with a tiny fish. We simply enjoyed each others company.

Animals are smart.

Natural selection takes a long time as we know. But we all find safe places to live. Animals do too.

These actions, while not being done thinking how it will help evolution, obviously do.

At least that is my take on it.

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25-06-2015, 06:58 AM
RE: Intelligent design it is
(25-06-2015 06:50 AM)Free Thought Wrote:  ...
But how do ... plants 'take steps ...'?

Triffids.

Yes

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25-06-2015, 07:01 AM
RE: Intelligent design it is
(25-06-2015 06:47 AM)Dom Wrote:  Evolution is an awesome thing!

And yes, I think there is a level of intelligence in all living things - plants too. I define intelligence here as the ability to evaluate one's surroundings and taking steps to improve adaptation.

Yabut, that's not evolution. Evolution is a blind, mindless, mechanical algorithm.

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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25-06-2015, 07:03 AM
RE: Intelligent design it is
Design is a horrible term in this context.

living word
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25-06-2015, 07:07 AM
RE: Intelligent design it is
(25-06-2015 07:03 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  Design is a horrible term in this context.

Intelligent is a horrible term in this context.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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25-06-2015, 07:12 AM
RE: Intelligent design it is
(25-06-2015 07:07 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(25-06-2015 07:03 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  Design is a horrible term in this context.

Intelligent is a horrible term in this context.

Horrible is a horrible term in this context.

Wink

Meanwhile, this something upon which Dennett and Dawkins disagree.

Dennett would agree with Dom but adds, of course, that this intelligence is "competence without comprehension".

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25-06-2015, 07:43 AM (This post was last modified: 25-06-2015 10:09 AM by Chas.)
RE: Intelligent design it is
(25-06-2015 07:12 AM)DLJ Wrote:  
(25-06-2015 07:07 AM)Chas Wrote:  Intelligent is a horrible term in this context.

Horrible is a horrible term in this context.

Wink

Meanwhile, this something upon which Dennett and Dawkins disagree.

Dennett would agree with Dom but adds, of course, that this intelligence is "competence without comprehension".

I think Dennett does not use 'intelligence' but uses 'design'. In fact, Dennett stresses that evolution is algorithmic - that is, it is substrate neutral, mindless, and guaranteed to produce ... something.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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25-06-2015, 08:48 AM
RE: Intelligent design it is
I simply define intelligence as reaction to outside stimuli in this context.

It can be totally devoid of cognizance - plain generational evolution.

But even in plants you can observe reaction to outside stimuli. Like my Honeysuckle shrub, which in the course of 4 years literally walked out of the Llama enclosure where it got chewed to outside the fence. It just started making shoots outside the fence instead of inside. It is now completely outside.

Or my fig tree. It lives in a borderline climate zone and tends to get frozen back to the ground most winters. In those years, it will come back but the fruit will not have time to ripen, too much time is wasted growing a trunk and branches. So now, instead of growing upright like the tree it is, it grows like a low growing shrub. It covers a large area with low branches, sets fruit on all of them and produces about what it should, and has time to ripen. It is about knee high.

Probably if I propagate it I will have a new strain. But the plant did this within one life time, no evolution possible as yet.

That is how I define intelligence in this context. It's not evolution because there is no propagation as yet. It is real time adaptation to unusual conditions. It's acting on information. I call it intelligence here. You may disagree with the use of the word, but I have no better, and you do see the concept.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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